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 Replies: 88 / Views: 11,015 |
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Valued Member
Canada
93 Posts |
Just a little background before I start this rant. I have been collecting Canadian coins for over forty years and stopped about five years ago. It WAS a fun hobby but it no longer appeals to me, I have moved on. I used to be a regular contributor to another nameless forum but was kicked off when I suggested that the owner/moderator grow a pair. The debate surrounded around fakes flooding in from China and I has the temerity to state that anyone who could produce such quality fakes could easily reproduce an ICCS flip. Talk about throwing a cat amongst the pigeons. It did not end well and the site has had only 8 new posts over the last two years. Several disturbing developments have taken place over the last ten years: 1) the market for quality Canadian coins has shrunk markedly. The demographics are working against the market with many of the collectors in my area (Victoria,BC) having passed. 2) the "Trends" do not reflect market reality. The "Trends" need to reflect actual transactions from auctions or ebay sales. I will not give an opinion as to how far down the values have to be reset as I am no longer active in the market. 3) the failure of B&M's. The internet has damaged this business irreparably. Buyers will no longer pay full retail for something that they can purchase online for a fraction of the price. 4) the proliferation of quality fakes polluting the market from overseas. I have followed MM's work over many years and commend him for his work in ferreting out these blights on the market. Who would fork over $1000 on a coin that could be worthless? The greater fool theory is alive and well in this hobby. 5) the RCM's ability to produce shiny "Granny Bait". The markup on these trinkets is huge and few retain their value. These bullion coins detract from the traditional market. 6) the debasement in the perceived value of TPG's. There have been some huge blunders in grading and misattribution that has damaged their reputation. Remember, you are buying an opinion only. Nothing is cast in stone. There is a large difference between an MS64 and an MS65. Many old 64's have been resubmitted and come back 65's. I know of what I speak. Grade creep IS real. One pet peeve is someone grading a blacksmith token. A little reading will inform you on how they were made - there wasn't a standard swing set out for a blacksmith's hammer. 7) the availability of other markets from ebay. I have been active in collecting coinage of Hong Kong and India and pre- confederation tokens. These markets have not been as badly corrupted by counterfeits and you can acquire a MS Vicky without breaking the bank. The last Canadian coins that I have purchased was a roll of Terry Fox loonies. I have not purchased an actual book on numismatics in quite awhile and the library will be passed on to my grandkids. I have an extensive library stored on my hard drive and on disc and the "buy the book first" statement cannot be stressed enough. My only consolation is that I did not pursue stamp collecting with same zeal as coins. *** Edited by Staff - Added paragraphs to make it easier to read.  *** |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5460 Posts |
I remember you from the old CCRS days and you were not the only one removed from that site for speaking out against certain TPG's and authors. A great number of us left 10 years ago or so and find space on other forums like this one. I agree with a great deal of what you posted, but don't necessarily believe that the Canadian market is drying up. B & M's are disappearing, but buyers are finding other places and ways to discuss collecting rather than open forums. |
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Valued Member
Canada
414 Posts |
@ inconnu, most of us here understand where you are coming from and are well aware of the current situation in Canadian numismatics. The fact is most of us have accepted that we need to educate and work together to protect ourselves and the hobby.
I would have usually ignored a thread like this but obviously you've been around long enough that you know what you're talking about and STILL HAVE THE PASSION. Why not take that enthusiasm and use it productively instead of ranting or making posts like "granny bait," or "Tumbler magic." Why don't you show us a coin and tell us about it, maybe show us a counterfeit and tell us how it can be identified, share something and promote the hobby, don't destroy it for newcomers!
As you said, you've been out of touch with Canadian collecting for the last number of years so if you think you're doing us all a favor by telling us something we've never heard before, you are wrong. We all have our opinions and most members have ranted at one time or another but your 13 posts are nothing I would call 'productive.'
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2287 Posts |
I could not agree more with inconnu! I also thank you for the kind words. My collection is being slowly liquidated for the very reasons you mention. There are few who will stand up and fight for the hobby. MM
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
I've said this more than a couple of times --- I bristle when I see the words Granny Bait written on this forum. It's rude and condescending. "Bait" implies females rank somewhere amongst fish in terms of intelligence. Considering Canada's NCLT routinely feature themes such as Superman, Batman and Star Trek, I'd suggest the market is definitely not senior females, If a hobby is to perish in the 21st century, just toss around a sexist connotation on a public forum and you can be assured that up to 51% of the population will avoid it just for that very reason. Quite possibly younger males as well considering that stereotyping people based on gender makes it seem numismatics is to be pursued by dinosaurs. Is that what we want?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Ouch that went south fast. I think the term granny bait means it's a type of product that an elderly gets sucked into buying as giftware for family. And when I say sucked in, I mean the way the items are pushed by the RCM, they sell them as a sort of gift/investment item, and they do suck people into buying these items when they inevitably lose value with high pressure sales techniques. I think the RCM has upset many non nclt collectors because it's taken away market from the coins that many view as coins with value, older coinage, and nclt seems to inevitably sully new collectors entering the hobby. I don't think there's an air of sexism in the statement. It's just a quick and easy way to sum up what I've stated. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
I appreciate your thoughts Alan, really I do.
Even if the term GrannyBait is intended to refer in a general way to people who foolishly get sucked into buying NCLT, the word Granny is unlikely to be confused with any other word in the English language other than what specifically describes an older female.
I dare say the terminology is probably a carry over from the 1960s. That was an era when garages dumped oil in the back alley and people died because nobody wore seat belts.
Adding - decades ago, it was predominately males who managed money, which is also why the hobby was predominately male. I highly doubt females or grannies ever were the main buyers of NCLT, now or in the past.
My theory is the term GrannyBait originated as a spiteful means to ridicule senior woman for spending what was perceived to be Grandpa's money.
Regardless, it's unflattering to the hobby in general.
Edited by wildflowerAB
02/08/2017 11:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
891 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Fair enough, but I just thought to contextualize the term, it's used as a derogatory to describe what the mint is doing, not a derogatory for the person buying. I think the intent is to try to protect old folks and those new to the hobby that get could get duped. And Nickelsguy and many here have tried to warn those whom are getting sucked in by aggressive sales from the RCM as well as warning against counterfeits, both of which most could agree has been a pitfall to the hobby. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
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Fair enough, but I just thought to contextualize the term, it's used as a derogatory to describe what the mint is doing, not a derogatory for the person buying. I think the intent is to try to protect old folks.....
Maybe we should take a poll? [D]. Because I get the impression it's predominately Old Folks who use the reference GrannyBait, and I could be wrong but I somehow doubt it's by females. The reason I think so is because it appears to be predomately younger males who get sucked into buying NCLT. (And let's not get into the "Debbie" Downer type accusations....). But my point is, if we want to encourage sound buying principles, name callling and stereotyping old women or females in a negative way isn't the way to accomplish anything other than offending potential newcomers to the hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Why not take that enthusiasm and use it productively instead of ranting or making posts like "granny bait," or "Tumbler magic." Why don't you show us a coin and tell us about it, maybe show us a counterfeit and tell us how it can be identified, share something and promote the hobby, don't destroy it for newcomers!
SelectCoinCanada this is an excellent suggestion. What I look to gain most from this hobby is learning and I'm very thankful there are still collectors out there who are inspired through sharing their knowledge. On that topic, I think it's time one of these days for me to dwelve into my 50c KingGeo variety collection and share some interesting photos of it.  Meanwhile if I must, I'd offer to stand watch over the banishment of that dreadful word - GrannyBait.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
I'm with you there, I'd be for a poll. You should propose an efficient new term that sums up the long statement of "trying to protect someone whom is new to the hobby that faces the possibility of being duped by the aggressive sales tactics of the mint".
One should tread carefully though, once the door to being offended is opened, someone else might pop up and say a new term is offensive.
Nomenclature in any field of study does change with time, but should be replaced with something that's equally as efficient & sums up the idea or theory at hand.
Edited by Alan
02/08/2017 12:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
@ Alan One of the good things about NCLT though, I notice some of the collectors of it who become disillusioned then crossOver to collect circulation coin. Others collect a little of both. That suits me too because I think it's important to collect some current coin sets if I hope to tweak the interest of the younger generation in my family. When I inherited my collection from my dad, he had continued it up the present year as well. Time does not stand still. As for terms being offensive, yes I hear what you say, there's also a strong undercurrent toward Flipping associated with NCLT, released in monthly increments. Mini businesses desperate for profit, how NCLT became associated with an easy way to make money is beyond me. But for the hobby to flourish it must attract the attention of those who are not familiar with any type of coin collecting at all. It's surprising the number of people I chat with who have no clue about it. It's not easy to take up, knowing nothing. TPG, trends, what to pay, how to grade, what to look for or where, how not to get ripped off.... I think it makes people somewhat leery that instructions don't come with it! Will the 2017 150th anniversary inspire newfound interest I wonder? Edited by wildflowerAB
02/08/2017 12:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2769 Posts |
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"Bait" implies females rank somewhere amongst fish in terms of intelligence Not sure how you made that leap but if you take a magnifying glass an go looking for insults in everything you see, hear and read chances are you will find it regardless of what the intended meaning actually is. If it makes you feel better we can call it grand-PA bait, I as a male will not be offended.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
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If it makes you feel better we can call it grand-PA bait, I as a male will not be offended.
Maybe you should gain the consensus of the rest of the grandpas who participate in the hobby? If you welcome the thought of being perceived as guilable with poor decision making skills, I suppose it's not up to me to argue. 
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Valued Member
165 Posts |
"GrandPA bait" I am no where near to be offended. So maybe after wildflowerAB calms down, we can proceed discussing the original post?
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Replies: 88 / Views: 11,015 |
Posted 02/08/2017 09:53 am
