1853 Braided Hair Large Cent - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 10 / Views: 999
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11898 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 11:48 am I picked this up for $65. The coin has a very attractive obverse, but the reverse appears to have had extensive die rust on the lower half. Thoughts on grade and other problems? Have I diagnosed the die rust correctly or are there other issues? Did I overpay? Thanks as always. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff

bandsdean Pillar of the Community United States 2125 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 12:35 pm Looks XF-40. Would need a more clear pic to see if it's die rust. If you haven't already, attribute its Newcomb variety and look at a few other examples. They should have the rust too. Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11898 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 2:09 pm Thanks bandsdean. I don't have the ability to discern the Newcomb die variety. I believe that there are 33 for this date. I tried to get a close up of the area. It looked to me like the white parts reflecting light were raised metal "pimples" you would expect from rusted dies, an opposed to the valleys you would expect from pitting and corrosion. Maybe it is just pitting and corrosion. The following image may help: IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18702 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 3:36 pm to me it looks like planchet corrosion as its not seen only on the lower half of the reverse. even though it probably was there when the coin was stamped it would still warrant a details designation. XF/AU details Report this Post to the Staff
Coinfrog Bedrock of the Community United States 94367 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 4:33 pm EF-45, kind of like the rusted die theory. Report this Post to the Staff
jerryc39 Pillar of the Community United States 3164 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 7:33 pm looks like N-19 which is R-2. Line in hair pointing to R in Liberty. Not a big fan of reverse surfaces. Looks like pitting to me. XF sharpness. $65 might be a bit high IMHO with that reverse. Report this Post to the Staff
Joseph7420 Bedrock of the Community Canada 11922 Posts	Posted 04/08/2017 11:09 pm EF-45. Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11898 Posts	Posted 04/11/2017 7:42 pm I got this in hand and examined it carefully. The coin is corroded and pitted. My hopes for die rust were dashed. I am also not an expert but the coin looks awfully red. Any thought on the color? Thinking about returning it, but in spite of everything, I really like the coin. What do you think? Should I return it or keep it for $65? I think it is AU58 Details - environmental damage. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Edited by numismatic student 04/11/2017 7:53 pm Report this Post to the Staff
vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 04/11/2017 8:03 pm I'd return it personally. It is corroded. The RD seems unnatural as if cleaned/retoned possibly recolored. AU details. swcoin.ecrater.com Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 04/11/2017 10:15 pm There are at least two main ways that dies rust: 1. Some areas of the die surfaces are RAISED relative to the surrounding areas - in other words, "peaks" on the die, or "pits" on the coin. 2. Other areas of the die surfaces will be LOWERED relative to the surrounding areas - in other words, "pits" on the die, or "peaks" on the coin (if struck sufficiently well) or design voids/poorly struck areas (otherwise.) Polishing the dies tends to remove the raised areas of corrosion on the die, but does little or nothing for the pitted areas unless they are superficially shallow. The worse the rust is, the more pitting is likely to occur, = the more "pimples" you will see on the coin where the dies were rusted. Early state strikes with moderately to severely rusted dies will usually show a combination of RAISED areas of rust ("pimples" on the coin) and at least a few areas of PITTING or voids. These raised areas on the dies, which cause the pitting on the coins, are often eroded by wear as coins are struck from the dies, depending on the planchet composition, die material, and striking method. If sufficient erosion due to striking occurs, or if the dies are then polished, in an attempt to clean up the rust or clean up clash/cracks, the coin will still show the rust "pimples" to some extent (because the low spots cannot be "polished out" of the dies without working them to such an extent that the design is compromised unless the rust is extremely minor) but most of the PITTING or voids will be noticeably shallower or entirely gone. In other words, if you are looking at a coin, and you see that it has lots of pitting, but does not have any noticeable areas of RAISED metal "pimples" or bumps, die rust is a less likely cause vs. either post-strike coin corrosion/environmental damage or pre-strike planchet corrosion/environmental damage. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11898 Posts	Posted 04/11/2017 11:18 pm Spent some time with the coin, and with all its imperfections, I love the coin. She's a keeper. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
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