Are These 8 Reales Coins Real? - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 11 / Views: 3,798
LuckyTan New Member United States 3 Posts	Posted 04/29/2017 11:03 pm Hello, I just signed up for this forum today to ask questions and opinions cause from the research I did this seems to be the most knowledgeable place online. I recently inherited a bunch of coins from a deceased relative who I guess was a major collector cause they had a ton of stuff. Most of the collection was dozens of us mint sets and proof sets, 100s of Morgan dollars, lots of gold american eagles and lots of other nice older coins like 2 cent pennies and large cent pennies. some were graded by companies called ngs and psgs. i know a little about coins but I am not a professional. I mostly specialize in sports cards and comics as a collector. there were 3 of these spanish 8 reales coins in this estate as well. 1 of them is a NGC graded shipwreck coin that is in a wooden box so I'm sure that is real. the other 2 I have no idea on thats why I am asking for help. one is a 1783 8 reales that I was told since long ago was a shipwreck coin as well? I dont know. it is kinda beat up and looks like it was melted or fused together with something? see pics. i was wondering a, if this is real as well. b, is it ship wreck? c, what kind of value is it worth in this condition if real? the 2nd coin is in amazing condition. so much I think its almost too good to be true. but then again the collection is worth in the tens of thousands so it might actually be real. it is a 1788 spanish 8 reales. the condition is amazing on this coin it almost looks proof like? I guess is the term? from research I did it looks like it could be cleaned or even maybe polished as well? i dont know. i guess I need to know the same on this coin. is it real? was it cleaned? was it polished? what is the value if it is real? polished and so fourth? do I have 2 amazing nice coins or do I have 2 fakes? i attached high res scans of the front and backs as well as pictures of the side and pictures showing the finish on the really nice one from 1788. these have been in the same collection for over 50 years I know for sure. i have a scle but it doesn't go to decimal points. the 1783 coin reads as 23 grams and the 1788 coin reads as 28 grams on my scale. the 1799 coins has what looks to be water spots on it as well. can these be wiped off or will I damage the coin by doing this? these were both in cases I took them out to scan them and picture them. ANY help at all is greatly appreciated. thx here are the pics 1783 coin 1788 coin Report this Post to the Staff

Sheldon Overton Baby Valued Member United States 179 Posts	Posted 04/30/2017 11:39 am Have they been dipped? Not super familiar with this coin series but the shine looks a bit "strong". Report this Post to the Staff
LuckyTan New Member United States 3 Posts	Posted 05/03/2017 5:03 pm any experts? thx Report this Post to the Staff
Erba New Member Netherlands 22 Posts	Posted 05/03/2017 9:29 pm Hi LuckyTan. To my (non expert) eye those coins look like casts. Very soft on the details and very shiny. Certainly 23g is way to low but would explain the missing material on that coin. 28g would be too high. A more accurate scales would be better but imho the coins look strange. Maybe Realeswatcher or CJ or Swamperbob (is he still around?) could tell us more. You can also read up on the many posts that Swamperbob has made about the Reales coins (and others). Lots of info there. Edited by Erba 05/03/2017 9:34 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Imthealphaomega Pillar of the Community United States 3210 Posts	Posted 05/03/2017 9:40 pm The 1783 is probably from the el cazador shipwreck. I recently bought one from Vero beach Florida while visiting my grandmother.. over 400,000 of these coins were lost for over 200 years off the Gulf of Mexico your example got severely shipwreck effect from saltwater and other debris etc. Report this Post to the Staff
TwoKopeiki Pillar of the Community Czech Republic 803 Posts	Posted 05/04/2017 11:08 am 1783 looks authentic with environmental damage. Could be a shipwreck. The 1788 looks polished. There are signs of wear and the shine is not the Mint State lustre. Edited by TwoKopeiki 05/04/2017 11:08 am Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 05/04/2017 4:32 pm Yes I would say they are ALL real. The 1783 Carolus III is the KEY DATE for the Calzador Shipwreck so they look funny due to environmental seawater corrosion on the silver. Anybody that buys or owns this coin ... this is is a good sign he knew what he was doing. Moving forward just take the coins IMO to a auction house rather than a coin bullion dealer. Probably not a top end auction house but a middle of the road. Check your yellow pages or Coin World. Good luck ... Report this Post to the Staff
LuckyTan New Member United States 3 Posts	Posted 05/04/2017 7:45 pm Colonialjohn and others THANK YOU very much for the info. mostly what I wanted to know if they were real which you answered and I guess the 1783 is actually from a shipwreck as you have confirmed also. so the 1788 coin looks like someone polished it? also, what is the value of the 1783 coin in its condition and being from a shipwreck and what is the value of the 1788 coin being I guess "polished" now? did the polish job take away alot from the value? please help me with real world values on both coins? thanks so much Report this Post to the Staff
jgenn Pillar of the Community United States 1156 Posts	Posted 05/04/2017 11:26 pm Hold on there LuckyTan. Because the 1783 has extensive environmental damage, it is impossible to authenticate. Sure it might look like other seawater damaged 8 reales from the El Cazador but a counterfeit can be purposefully environmentally damaged to look like that. You should at least determine the specific gravity to see if it is the correct silver alloy. Regarding the 1788, if you weighed it at 28 grams it is too heavy by a gram, and therefore must be counterfeit. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 05/05/2017 11:35 am True jgenn but as long as this NEWBIE brings this PILE of SILVER? to a middle class type auction house ... LOL. Whatever ... JPL Report this Post to the Staff
TwoKopeiki Pillar of the Community Czech Republic 803 Posts	Posted 05/05/2017 1:05 pm Jack, the 1788 could also be plated (for whatever reason) Edited by TwoKopeiki 05/05/2017 1:06 pm Report this Post to the Staff
realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 05/06/2017 01:03 am The 1783 is with virtually zero doubt an El Caz piece. Yes, casts or other repros can be done of wreck pieces (Bob and I have discussed this possibility specifically re: El Caz pieces before). Given the look & condition of this current piece... we're not dealing with that here. The 1788 is your typical mail order-type piece (think Washington Mint blue felt clamshell, et al)... probably had horrid splotchy hoard toning that they fully obliterated with the heavy buff job to make them more palatable to their target market. RE: the weight of "28g" - it seems we're working off a "nearest gram" scale... so there is no way you should look at that weight as automatically damning. The piece has a lot of meat left and should likely weigh close to 27g even (26.8-ish?), which wouldn't be hugely off from, say, just closer to 28 than 27 according the OP's scale if the calibration is a bit wonky. Or maybe all the Bartender's Helper stuck in the recesses legitimately has it up to 28g... --------- The polishing leads to another point, which I'll put as gently as I can. If these two pieces are any indication... the dearly departed collector may possibly have been something of a mail-order buyer. These are simply not pieces indicative of a sophisticated collector. OP, here's hoping that these were an anomaly and your benefactor didn't leave a mountain of Littleton Coin cellos, 1970s-80s proof sets, "Coins of the Old West" snapcases and other coins bought from a form that came in the weekend coupon pack in addition to these. Report this Post to the Staff
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