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Fake Coin, Advice Sought On How To Handle Major Auction House

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caesar77's Avatar
United States
356 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  10:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add caesar77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I acquired a Heraclius Solidus in 2015 from a major auction house, to be disclosed later, and decided to sell it in 2017. I used the same auction house again, to auction it off. I received a curt letter telling me that the coin was not genuine and they were sending it back in the mail. To date they are sending it back, and in spite of evidence that I originally bought it from them, no refund is forthcoming. I am frankly surprised that they were so oblivious and have not offered to refund me the initial purchase price. I know major dealers go through thousands of coins. However, they sold it to me in 2015 and now in 2017 are calling it fake. I believe them, so is it unreasonable to expect a full refund from them? I would appreciate any feedback on how you guys would handle this.

Fake-Coin,-Advice-Sought-On-How-To-Handle-Major-Auction-House
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Debrajc's Avatar
United States
4211 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Debrajc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to hear that ceasar!

Since so long of a time period has passed I doubt they will offer any compensation.
The original owner has long ago been paid from your proceeds.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Contact the Better Business Bureau. They helped me and I got satisfaction maybe 8 out of 10 times I used it.
It would help if you had some email, receipts, canceled check or credit card statements and images from the auction in 2015. It gets most companies attention that want to have a good reputation.
Valued Member
arnoldoe's Avatar
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you should be able to get your money back... Did you send them a message yet?
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is truly disturbing. Caesar77, you should certainly be refunded your money and offered an apology for your inconvenience. For gosh sakes, they were the ones who sold you the coin in the first place - no doubt assuring you of its authenticity at the time. Wow.

By comparison, I just put a coin in the mail today, a return to CNG. It was part of a group lot I won in April. It is a fake. Not just my opinion...I called in the troops: some big hitters who backed me up on the condemnation. CNG was wonderful: apologetic and promising a full refund for the hammer price and buyer's fee. A problem-free return that leaves me feeling good about the experience.

A few years back I had an even more impressive response from Stacks/Bowers, when some 2 1/2 years after winning a coin in an auction, I discovered it was a die match to a known fake. Although their terms of sale provided a limited window for returns based on challenges to authenticity - and they thus would have been within their rights to deny me a refund - they gave me no problems at all. They took the coin back, no questions asked, and refunded me. I was very impressed - and, given that particular coin's cost - very relieved.

Have you been in touch with the owner/boss? I would go to the top, stress that you purchased the coin based on his or her company's assurance that it was genuinely ancient as described.

Keep us updated, please. And best wishes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They should refund you. I hope you out them for this crap
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999fine's Avatar
United States
1346 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 999fine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That certainly is a maddening situation. I think a refund is due. It's not like another auction house pronounced it a fake.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2017  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Situations like this make me wonder if they knew the coin was a fake when they sold it to you. That would constitute fraud. Would be difficult to prove, but contacting the Better Business Bureau as TheNickelGuy stated would open and investigation and let the auction house know you serious about get your money back.
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caesar77's Avatar
United States
356 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2017  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add caesar77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the end the auction house is making it right, offering me a full refund. I guess they have to go after the big client that sold it to them in the first place. I am glad they are doing that. I presume with the thousands of coins going through their house, that fake coins can slip through?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3442 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Things are rapidly getting out of hand. I personally know people who will not spend serious money unless the coin has a "pedigree" and can be traced back 50 years or more !
The fakery is not new
But the quality certainly is

https://www.thespruce.com/chinese-c...ring-4071202
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lrbguy's Avatar
United States
949 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ceasar77, assuming you wanted to sell the coin in the first place, if the house was NOT buying out of their error, how would you have them list it for sale?

Of course, the other side of the coin, literally, is that they might recently have condemned a perfectly good coin which they understood better before. The only way for them to save face when that happens is to buy out of the mistake, one way or another.

There is no substitute for knowing the material yourself, recognizing that no one is perfect.
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EFLargeCents's Avatar
United States
1304 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fakes are getting better and better across all of numismatics, and I feel that this fact is being buried by those who stand to lose the most money from it. It is best to educate oneself on the series you collect so that you can learn what to look for. The modern counterfeiters though, are directly copying authentic coins and using authentic period coining techniques with the correct metal, and that makes it very difficult to the untrained and even the trained to authenticate.
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jskirwin's Avatar
United States
616 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whenever I mention that I collect ancients and their eyes don't glaze over or they don't switch the topic, the first or second question is usually "How do you know they aren't fake?"

Yep. It's not an easy situation in the hobby.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In the end the auction house is making it right, offering me a full refund


Happy Ending!
Glad for you!
Rest in Peace
Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They handled the problem? Keep using them!

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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2017  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert on gold coins, but does anyone else not see anything wrong with this coin? Just from the photos it looks fine. Is the weight wrong or something?
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