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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,191 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I was a dummy. I overgraded this every time I looked at it at the past few shows. Now that it's home, I realize that. Oh well, I don't think I'm too buried in it and it is very nice in terms of surface or originality. Keep in mind, the obverse definitely shows a weak strike, especially in the center and rims.  Edited by Prethen 04/19/2008 5:38 pm
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Valued Member
United States
177 Posts |
I'd say VF-20 or 30. From the looks of the rim at the top of the obverse, it seems it was so weakly struck that not much of the "WE" (if any) was there to begin with.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
I think VF-30 is reasonable. Your photos are excellent. Hard to get it into the EF level with the amount of wear on the leaves. I'm not really experienced with this series, though, so I'm guessing more than I'd like.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1934 Posts |
If VG criteria is, "full rims are nearly always a requirement" where does this coin grade with its rim wear/no denticles? Given exceptions to the rule and this coin, I say it's VG one side, VF the other; net Fine.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3234 Posts |
Thanks guys. I'm hoping Richard (nohope) chimes in also.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
This one is really hard to put a grade to. The first thing I look at on any 2 Cent is the WE. On this coin the WE is entirely missing, but the rest of the coin doesn't show that much wear. That makes me think weak strike or Grease Filled Die, or some combination of the two. I think you could make a good case for any grade between F12 & VF30. I'd also like to see what nohope thinks, but isn't he in Trinidad or something?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
Is that a die crack coming of the 2nd "A" in "America" or a scratch?
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
This is a practice forum so I will try, although on a series I'm not familiar with. If VF 20 requires "All major details are clear," then I have to think this is a bit below that. Everyone is noting the missing "WE" that I did not initially notice. What I did notice was the top of the arrow to the right of the motto is almost entirely missing -- this seems important. The weak strike makes it very difficult to grade but I will say F12.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
The weak strike makes it tough, but I'll go vf-20 obverse and vf-30 reverse.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3234 Posts |
Yes, those are some very nice die cracks on the reverse. The photo should reveal that those lines are raised (i.e. not scratches). I'm hoping "nohope" might clue me in as to the variety for this coin (although it might be common for the date).
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3234 Posts |
I fully convinced myself each time I saw this coin that it was a very nice VF. I really based my opinion on the reverse. After taking it home and photographing it, I started having doubts and wonder if it's just a nice F15. I keep vascillating on this one each time I look at the details. Some details are really sharp and make me think VF. The IN GOD...TRUST is very sharp, the bow on the reverse is sharp, and when you tilt the coin in the light to look at the wear patterns (darkened area), it looks like VF wear. I would think Fine wear on this coin would show a constant dark pattern over the entire coin and some less sharp details of the items I noted above. I keep changing my mind on this one. I paid VF for it, but I could see why someone might argue F15 as a market grade due to obverse strike issues.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
Sorry about the lack of response Prethen have been offshore for the last two weeks with no internet. Once I have got over my jet lag and my eyes work properly again I will take a look and give you my unprofessional opinion. A quick glance I would put it at F12 I don't like the colour so tell me its darker in hand and I will be less inclined to say some one has cleaned some corrosion off in the past. The 1 is in the wrong place for it to be a Breen 2405 (KF-1-TDO,KN3) which is the rare variety for this date. most of the other varieties have significant doubling on the date except the KF-4-TDO but yours does not show the die cracks on the motto to meet this either. So nice die cracks but not a significant Known variety. I will also look at my reference books when I look at the coin again tomorrow.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
OK I can see a little better today and my head is a little clearer. Before I begin I am no expert on this series. It just happens to be the one I am obsessed with. Starting with the OBV. The Wee is worn though it is possible to determine part of the W and E. The coin is slightly off center which is very common in this series. Hence the uneven wear. The arrow on the right is worn to the point where the shaft blends with the leaves and the horizontal shield lines have been worn smooth. The coin is slightly damaged in the middle as if some one was contemplating putting a hole in it. The fields look as if there was some corrosion on the coin in the past and there seems to be a slight amount of porosity. The details on the bottom of the shield have been worn into a single smooth surface. Where as the left side I would grade in the VF range the right I would only put in the VG range. The REV Again the fields appear grainy as if the coin has suffered corrosion in the past. The lettering is thick and flat due to wear. the Wreath to the left of the ribbon is worn to the point where the stalks blend in a couple of places again at the top of the wreath on the right the ears are almost blended. Over all I would be inclined to stick with my F12 assessment from last night. Though I would not be surprised to see NGC call it F15. This is what I would call VF35 sorry about the dust etc but my desk realy needed cleaning when I took the pics.   Please don't be swayed by my judgment. I repeat I am no expert.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3234 Posts |
Richard, my personal assessment aligns pretty closely with yours. I think the coin is a market grade F15. However, I do believe the surfaces aren't all that bad and are largely market acceptable. I do also agree that there's a possibility due to some of the color variation that it might have been messed with a bit. I don't see any real signs of corrosion or a hole to be created. The strike does such on the reverse which really lends to the weakness of the right arrow, etc.
For the record, for the coin you're showing above, I would say is an easy XF40+. If any luster is showing, I would say XF45. However, due to the way the dirt is in and around the devices and not on the surface, I think this coin might have been lightly cleaned (soap and watered?) which isn't necessarily bad.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
Should have saved the pennies for one like this me thinks.... Sorry just had to show off a bit...  
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,191 |
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