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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,725 |
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Valued Member
United States
196 Posts |
Okay , so I was recently told that Denver wouldn't ever make mistakes with their dies is this true? For instance if we find a 98,99 or 2000 D. They would never make the mistake of being a Wide AM. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
I think the Wide AM is considered a transitional die variety -- which may have been used by mistake -- and maybe it was used out of necessity. Here's more information: http://www.doubleddie.com/58348.htmlI think that since dies are made at both mints, there no reason to believe that errors or varieties can't happen in Denver.  |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
It's not that Denver can't goof, they didn't have the Master Dies in house to make their reverse a transitional die as Philly had one mixed up in theirs. Some think it was a proof master die from San Francisco that some how snuck into Philly...? I personally think it was a proof die due to the sharpness of details on those WAM coins I've found. The mint makes the master dies (both obverse and reverse dies) and then distributes them to where they "belong" |
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Valued Member
 United States
196 Posts |
So it's not pointless to look at those years from Denver to see if there are errors? Thank you for your guys response.
Edited by Lelah
06/12/2017 10:03 am
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Valued Member
United States
196 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:For instance if we find a 98,99 or 2000 D. They would never make the mistake of being a Wide AM. A "mistake" has nothing to do with it. Denver has had their own die shop to produce business strike dies since 1996(prior to that year, dies for all mints were produced at Philadelphia). The Wide AM reverse is only created through the use of a die hubbed with a proof reverse design. Denver does not strike circulating design proof coinage so they would not even have a master die or hub present with the Wide AM design. However, Denver can indeed still produce doubled die coins and they have had many RPMs in the past when the mintmarks were still hand-punched. Edited by biokemist6
06/12/2017 3:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
 with Biokemist6. In 1996 Denver started manufacturing Working Dies. See first quote or found in link below. Quote:
A major turning point for hub and die production in the U.S. Mints came in the summer of 1996 when the Denver Mint opened its own die making shop. Prior to this, all aspects of the die making process were done exclusively at the Philadelphia Mint. The new Denver die shop was equipped with the single-squeeze hubbing presses that the Mint started developing in the mid-1980's. Reading further makes for an open window as the next paragraph in the article states Philadelphia was still producing the actual Master Hubs and Master Dies that Denver was using on there single-squeeze hubbing presses to create there Working Hubs and Working Dies from. Also sound like Denver did have some production runs made for San Francisco Mint Quote:
The die shop at the Denver Mint does not produce master hubs or master dies. All master hubs and master dies are still produced at the Philadelphia Mint. Master dies for coinage production at the Denver Mint are shipped to the Denver die shop from the Philadelphia Mint's die shop. The Denver die shop then produces the necessary working hubs and working dies in their die shop. The Denver die shop also produces the unfinished working dies that will be used at the San Francisco Mint. Once received from Denver, the working dies receive their special finishes for proof coin production at the San Francisco Mint. http://www.doubleddie.com/58201.htmlSeems that might leave a window open in shipping the wrong product (aka Working Hubs or Dies) from one mint to the other around this time period. Thanks, Doug. Edited by Halo1st
06/12/2017 4:35 pm
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Valued Member
United States
196 Posts |
OK. That makes sense. Thank you biokemist
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
The die shop at the Denver Mint does not produce master hubs or master dies. All master hubs and master dies are still produced at the Philadelphia Mint. Master dies for coinage production at the Denver Mint are shipped to the Denver die shop from the Philadelphia Mint's die shop. Interesting, that information is new to me. Although it leaves a theoretical possibility for a Denver Wide AM, there is not much of a realistic possibility. Given the relative scarcity of the Philly Wide AMs, it is almost certain that an unfinished proof die(s) was used instead of a proof master hub/die which would have resulted in numerous working dies being impressed with the Wide AM design. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
If Denver was making the working dies for San Francisco then they would have had to have the Proof master hubs on hand there. That would mean that Philadelphia would NOT have them and Philadelphia WAM's would be impossible. Since Philly did make WAM's then the Proof master hubs had to be there not in Denver. As far as I know Philadelphia still makes all the S mint dies. Edited by Conder101
06/13/2017 10:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
The way I think it reads is Philly did make the Master Hubs and Master Dies.
Then distributed Master Dies only to Denver to produce Working Hubs and Working Dies for Denver and San Francisco. The Master Hub(s) remained at the Philadelphia mint.
Wexler's reference states it started in the summer of 1996 but, nothing on ending. So uncertain how long that processed continued. Could've been the one year or could've been longer.
In 1997 Philly was set up and began producing dies with the single-squeeze hubbing process but, no mention when or if they took back the die making and distribution for San Francisco. Seems I read that somewhere. Thanks, Doug.
Edited by Halo1st
06/13/2017 12:26 pm
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Valued Member
United States
196 Posts |
So what is the difference with the 1992 D then. Is that something different
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
In 1993 the cent design was changed to use the CAM on both proof and business strikes, but close to the end of the year the Philadelphia mint starts making dies for the coming year as well so the mints can have a stockpile of dies and not be caught waiting when the year changes. Also typically the mints strike a stockpile of coins with the next years date as well. So in late 1992 Philadelphia sent CAM dies to Denver for use in the following year and at some point one of the 1993 CAM reverses was paired up with a 1992 obv die by mistake. Something I've wondered is how many people are searching the 1993 cents for a WAM rev? If there were any usible or even unused rev cent dies on hand at the end of 1992 would they have been junked? Or is it possible that one or more MIGHT have been used in 1993? Things like that happen. Look at the 2008 W rev of 2007 ASE's, the 1840 Med letter half dollar (Seated half obv paired with a Capped bust half rev.) |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,725 |
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Posted 06/11/2017 6:23 pm
