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Assistance Requested: 1958 British Gold Sovereign - Real Or Not?

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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  07:38 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Dear forum members,

Any assistance at all is appreciated. I have never purchased a British Sovereign of this series so I am unfamiliar with them.

I understand dimensions are 22 mm diameter and weight is a hair under 8 grams. I know how much gold is supposed to be in a full British Sovereign (0.2354) and I, of course, know the spot price of gold.

Fortunately, I will be picking up the coin in person so I'll be able to examine it before purchase.

I do have pre-1900 British Gold Sovereigns if they would be helpful physically comparing coins when I go today to purchase this one?

I am assuming the coin I have pictured is a full sovereign.

Any opinions on condition, value, or any thing else for that matter is always appreciated.

Gentlemen and gentlewomen your assistance is always appreciated!

Yellow88

Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?

Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well the weight and size seems right and the value is just in the gold so not commonly faked.

You can see the digs in the front? These coins were often worn in jewellery so maybe its been knocked about like that...

Theres no alarm bells ringing for me but I wouldn't spend more than bullion value on it.
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DavidUK,

Thank you for the reply. You have a very good eye.

I read this article here https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/1958fa...vereign.html and they made a significant point about the number of serrations. Although the website seems to have a very good reputation they seem to be wrong about the serrations after I compared/counted serrations on a number of graded and ungraded 1958 Sovereigns on ebay. Any input on this?

I believe melt value at current spot is about $293 USD at the moment. After reviewing the SOLD prices on USA ebay for this specific coin it appears buyers are willing to pay significantly more even for a coin in this condition. Is this an accurate assumption in your opinion or am I simply misinforming myself and/or ignorant?

Thank you,
Yellow88
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DavidUK,

I am sorry to bother you again. When you refer to the "digs" on the face could you clarify?

The coins that have been mounted as jewelry, that I have encountered, all have seem to have been put into a bezel or they have literally have had a hole drilled into/through them.

Kind regards,
Yellow88
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are in the field in front of the mouth, and on the lower cheek.

I think DavidUK has said everything right.

- David (not UK !) (refer country.)
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!

UK understood now.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yellow, it could be that US buyers are prepared to pay considerably more, this information I wouldn't know.

I live in the UK where these things are more common, and what's more I used to work in the jewellery trade where we saw so many of these that we often sent them to melt. As such maybe I have a bit of a harsh outlook but unless a coin has a rare year, or mint mark (some were minted in Australia etc) or the coin is Victoria bunhead or shield back or something I wouldn't be happy to pay more than gold for them.

The serration issue I can't really offer any guidance on, just the style and sharpness of the coin which seems OK.

As for being in jewellery there are a number of ways to insert coins... bezels with tongues that you bend over may leave marks particularly where the coin is loose and rattle around but there are also ones which are like a strip that goes around the edge of the coin with small lips to stop the coin popping out, these are the exact size of the coin and don't always damage the coin visibly. Who knows what happened to it, but at least it hasn't been polished to death or badly scarred those little dints where something have hit it are not ideal but I have seen much worse.
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United Kingdom
1351 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add peter1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It has no premium as a numismatic piece and spot value is my take on this matter.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
190 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pwa 1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are going to look at it in hand worth reading the ....Chard website ,sorry I cant put the link up.
Then type in 1958 fake sovereign , I am not saying its a fake but a good site to have a look.
By doing so you will know exactly what to look for and worth a few minutes checking the indicators on the pictures.
They are a sovereign/bullion dealer in Blacpool UK
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  02:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thank all three of you gentlemen from the UK very much. I could not have asked for more clear and concise answers along with superb explanations. My knowledge level grew 10 fold.

The Chard site is exactly where I found the info about the serrations. The Chard site in general is a lot of fun and informative.

I sell a little on ebay mostly assisting collector friends dispose of items that want to liquidate. Personally I'm a gold fanatic.

I do a lot of international business so I'm always running into interesting coins, but that is the fun part for me. Doing the research, meeting new people and making new friends along the way is what I truly enjoy.

I just recently started getting into the sovereigns for myself. An 1890 and an 1892 so far. They are a lot of fun!
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  03:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exclusively minted Australian minted sovereigns and half sovereigns can be an interesting sidelight,
especially those of the Sydney Mint 1855 to 1870.

Yellow88:
For Sydney Mint Sovereigns and half sovereigns:
Victoria wears a of Banksia in her hair, and is a different type to the Newfoundland coins 1865 - 96, but were both of similar, but not the same, Wyon design.

The reverse of the Sydney Mint sovereign and half sovereign is very obviously a different design, and is exclusively Australian.
Sovereigns and Half sovereigns nevertheless.
Dates 1855-68 have silver and not copper, as the alloying metal, and look a little more pale than British homeland gold of the same period.
Sydney Mint half sovereigns are relatively scarce on World numismatic markets.
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  03:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very glad you mentioned this. I have a small store on ebay and just got through selling a great deal of Aussie and New Zealand coins. I made some good contacts with a few Aussie coin dealers who were simply reselling the coins they bought from me.

I would love to get even just one of the coins you mentioned. And I even studied the different metal contents and mint marks etc you mentioned. The Aussie dealers stated they are even hard to come buy over there and the one or two I've seen in the states were quite expensive.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe some sovereigns were minted in India? Bombay or Calcutta Mint I cannot remember.

I love my two little Jubilee headed Victorias!
Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  03:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Couldn't help myself. I had to post the pics.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  04:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice Yellow.

When I was about 20 years old I worked in a jewellers shop which had a pawn brokers attached. The gold price at the time was about £5 a gram for 22ct and we used to have many sovereigns come out of the pawn broking side, so many that we would send them to melt to recover the money.

Long and short of it was that whenever I did a days over time I would ask to be paid with a sovereign. I put together a nice collection of each portrait and a couple of mint marks for Sidney or Melbourne... all at £40 per sovereign.

I don't have many regrets but I had some hard times, and I had to sell these, mainly because they were the easiest thing I owned to turn into cash but also because the gold price went huge and I turned a massive profit on them. I think this is the only numismatic items that I have ever sold. Another benefit is that by British law, since these coins were legal tender you cannot be taxed on the profit from them.

Cut to now I just have a few proof modern sovereigns and half sovereigns from 2000 and the special releases from 2002 with the shield backs. These are a throw back to my only old one from Victoria which sits inside of silver sovereign holder made by the famous maker Sampson Mordan who invented the propelling pencil.
English silver has hallmarks allowing it to be dated accurately to 1897 the sovereign is a bit earlier from 1855.

Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?

Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?

Assistance-Requested:--1958-British-Gold-Sovereign---Real-Or-Not?
Edited by DavidUK
07/26/2017 04:41 am
Pillar of the Community
yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely beautiful. I don't know which is more impressive the VICTORIAN SILVER SOVEREIGN CASE 1882 SAMPSON MORDAN or the coin. BOTH are impressive; that is my answer!

The spiral flute decoration is true old world artisan craftmanship. They just don't make them like that any more.

Simply lovely.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  05:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
:-) I am glad you appreciate, if your interest in this area continues I look forwards to seeing any further aquisitions you make. Sovereigns are a coin agreat many of us this side of the pond have affection for.
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