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Indications That A Note Has Been Ironed...?

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United States
38 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2017  10:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wandering Nomad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Greetings!

If you, as a serious collector, were to inspect a note (such as shopping around at a show, etc.) what types of indicators could you look for to ensure it hasn't been starched and or ironed?

Any tip offs that it definitely HAS been....?
(or am I being paranoid here, lol)

Are there notes, for instance, that have unique embossing (or some type of stamped imprint)?

Are there any U.S bills on which starching/ironing would be indecipherable?


Please share any experiences or info you may have!
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CelticKnot's Avatar
United States
12817 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF!

I don't think you're being paranoid at all. There are plenty of people out there that will try to spruce up a note to get a few extra bucks on a sale, so it's best to be careful and educated. This is particularly true when expensive notes are in question.

I've seen some people shine an intense light along the length of the note to really make doctoring indicators obvious.

You could also purchase only graded notes, which should help avoid (or identify) doctoring.
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 Posted 07/26/2017  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wandering Nomad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ahhh, grading--makes sense! ...so other than investigation by an intense light, I take it, one can't really know.



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paxbrit's Avatar
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992 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little pocket flashlight is always useful, put one on your key ring. Doesn't need to be intense.

Shine your light along the surface, you should see luster or sheen from the Treasury printing on the surface, while cleaned creases will be lackluster, dull lines. There might be raised fibers in the creases, as well. You backlight the note and ironed-out creases should show up. Also, there will be some (not always) residual dirt in the creases. Look for the soiled lines across the note. Check the corners for rounding, as well as trimming. The margins should not be less than straight. Check the paper of the note for 'soft' lines, where the crease has been washed and ironed out, the paper in the crease will be slightly abraded or raised, the rest of the note will retain it's 'hard' surface, to a great extent, although washing will soften there, also, but less so than the creases. There should be some luster to the paper on an unwashed surface.

The paper of the note should be natural, and show a slight bend from gravity when held horizontally at one margin. A starched note will be straight and stiff, not at all naturally yielding.

I have bought some doctored notes with good eye appeal, but I got them for not much more than their original grade value, I won't pay an AU price for a doctored note, but will pay VF plus a bit more if I want the note. When the price of an AU or UNC note is several hundred dollars and up, I don't mind saving good money on a cleaned example, if it means having a note in my collection or no note at all.

Unless the vendor admits to the note being doctored, and comes down to my price, there's no deal. I don't want to reward this activity beyond a token amount. I consider cleaning and pressing to be acceptable solely for eye appeal and a quick sale at the original grade price plus a small percentage for the labor of cleaning. When the vendor raises the grade and price, he's dishonest and should be avoided unless they admit to the condition and drop the price.

ebay vendors who state 'the scan is the grade' are common vendors of high-grading prices and cleaned notes.

There are lots of very good reasons for TPG graded notes, and cleaning and pressing is one of them. What should be considered as an archival practice has become, frankly, theft. When I started collecting, I bought a few cleaned items in uninformed negligence. Since then, I've learned from those mistakes and hopefully have the right opinion about the practice, both in knowledgeable buying strategy and ethic.
Edited by paxbrit
07/26/2017 3:57 pm
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United States
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 Posted 07/26/2017  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wandering Nomad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks!!
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CelticKnot's Avatar
United States
12817 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the run-down, paxbrit. Very good insight.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed it was, paxbrit. Very well summarized.
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paxbrit's Avatar
United States
992 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all! I promised an article on doctored notes to realbanknotes.com, so you'll see this again and more, along with some photos of notes, including some of my early 'mistakes', hopefully in late August or September. We're all busy, I guess, so it may take a while.

Really no great insight, just my woeful experiences. They say experience starts with a mistake, you know.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2017  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, well done, and look forward to your article.
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