Need Some Help On Supposedly Genuine Cazador Shipwreck 1783 8 Reales Coins

Yeah, thanks T-BOP, it was nice to get a response here, but I am not going to buy either of them unless I know they are genuine first. I don't have the coin ... yet.

I felt obliged to consider the comments of moxking.
That set me to looking for examples, so I went straight to
Google images
'seawater corrosion piece of eight'.

I now agree with his reasons, and would take his advice to pass on these coins.
I would add that before considering them in the first place, I would need to look at them in hand. Localized pitting seems to be one of the characteristics of seawater corrosion. Natural sand abrasion can also change the appearance.

Unfortunately, it is easier to fake COA's, than it is to fake coins.

I would also agree with T-BOP about NGC slabbing. That would also allay fears about fake COA's.

Genuine recovered shipwreck coins ARE valued at a lot more than than equivalent coins of equal condition, and even more so, with provable genuine COA's. This where NGC slabbing can pay for itself.

However, I do not believe that NGC or any other TPGrader can determine from which wreck a particular coin may have come, despite the fact that they may may be very knowledgeable about the characteristics of seawater corrosion.
If they are satisfied with the authenticity of the coin, you may assume that they would be satisfied with the COA submitted with it, unless they comment differently.

Typical Washington Mint pieces here... out of the blue clamshell holders. The blobs are polished over horn silver (probably :-> ).


True... and raw El Caz pieces like this are a dime a dozen (thousands and thousands... and thousands) and can be found in a much better state of preservation. Patience is in order. That said, if the price is right, why not? There are sellers and some non-coin people who will just look at these barely above junk silver and price them as such. $20-25ish for the 2nd one, maybe $35-40ish for the better piece? Sure, why not - they serve a purpose at that level... as you're certainly not going to get, say, an "honest" Charles III XF anywhere near that price level.

And yes, their pedigree will always be "no papers BUT this type is typically _____ wreck". That won't be enough for a stickler... but will be for some people.

FWIW... NGC or such typically, in theory, will not/should not note a wreck pedigree on a holder unless you have some kind of proper cert with it (and of course, a generic/non-photo cert., while sometimes the standard issue for a given wreck - e.g. Concepcion pieces - can be tricky).

***HOWEVER*** I have seen/heard of several instances where a particular date/type is SO absolutely associated with a given wreck (e.g. 1783 8R = El Caz... 1729 gold ducats and 1733/34 salvaged Riders = Vliegenthart) that the graders know this and won't require DNA evidence. I recall reading one instance where it was claimed "they" (I think NGC) took it on themselves to call a piece El Caz without the person noting it on the submission.

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BTW, just to bollocks things up... there ARE some 1783 Mex 8R on the market from the "Hartwell" wreck.

These, though, are not them.