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Help With Identifying Possible Colonial Copper

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New Member

United States
20 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2017  8:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add FirstFrom to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello. I picked this coin out of a dealer junk box 40 years ago and I've never been able to figure out what it is. US Colonial copper? British or Irish coin? Condor token? Something else? I'm baffled, and I'm hoping the experts here can help me.

The diameter is 27-28 mm. If you spin the coin on its vertical axis, the reverse is upside-down compared to the obverse (I think this is "coin alignment"). As the pictures show, the coin is very worn, which isn't helping things.

Any guesses?
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Help-With-Identifying-Possible-Colonial-Copper
Help-With-Identifying-Possible-Colonial-Copper
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2017  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a Connecticut Cent to me. I suspect there's enough detail apparent that the variety may be guesstimated.
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2017  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It struck me (no pun intended) to be of the 1785-88 post colonials. should be easy to ID facing left, mailed bust and ribbon tails. ?
Edited by Crazyb0
09/18/2017 8:38 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2017  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's the diameter of a British halfpenny, but Britannia's shield is on the left, not the right; the mailed bust faces left.
Notice that the reverse is opposite of a Connecticut: the branch hand extends right and the pole hand is to the left.
I suspect that is actually a mailed bust left Connecticut copper with a full reverse brockage, probably Machin's Mills, one of the "1788" issues.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
United States
1656 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  05:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lcutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It appears to be one of the counterfeit British coppers that were so prevalent in England and America in the latter half of the 18th century. Details on these were often reversed either intentionally or inadvertently by inexperienced die cutters. Definitely not a state copper or Machin's product.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect an evasion piece, but I can find no listings of just devices but no inscriptions. The reference has no images so I can't check to see if the devices are possible and the inscriptions worn away. I would wonder about a blacksmith token, but the devices seem too well done.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was George III imitation halfpenny but the bust type more resembles that as used on the mailed bust Connecticut and Vermont issues.

That being said there are a few known G3 imitations and evasion issues with partial and full reverse brockages resulting in the characteristic backwards Britannia.
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a blacksmith token and it is somewhat valuable. Made to look worn right off the die. It is a Canadian Colonial Halfpenny token.
Could have a value between $30.00 and $100.00
Give me a little time I will identify it by Charlton number.
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United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like it is badly worn but in fact it could be a VF or better grade. These were made to look worn.
This one apppears to be BL-7 and if you go to ebay and look up Blacksmith Token in Canada Coins
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Tokens-182...ksmith+token
you may find it for sale in worse condition than yours.
I would scurry back to that junk bin and look for more coppers and brass that looks like this.
Believe it or not there are some pretty plain ones that fetch a lot more money and are quite rare.
Yours is one of the more common ones, but not the most common.
My value guess is about right.
Help-With-Identifying-Possible-Colonial-Copper
Edited by TNG
09/19/2017 10:07 pm
New Member
United States
20 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FirstFrom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, not even one day, and I've got an answer to something that I've wondered about for decades! Thank you everyone that took the time to think about my question and post a reply, and of course special thanks to TheNickelGuy for solving the mystery. This forum is great.
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United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2017  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF .... yeah, I re-read you got it 40 years ago after I posted. I think the junk bin is picked over by now. You have a neat token there. I only own one. Mine is BL-37 one that is about equally available and slightly less valuable I suppose depending on the current supply and demand.
I have chased the one you have from time to time and sometimes it goes a little cheaper if there are a lot for sale at that time. The others, I would just have to get lucky on like you did with this. Hard to fork out a couple few hundred dollars for these things huh?
My Blacksmith Canadian Colonial Half Penny Token BL-37
Help-With-Identifying-Possible-Colonial-Copper
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Edited by TNG
09/19/2017 10:47 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2017  12:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nailed it, NickelGuy
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jerseyben's Avatar
United States
1211 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2017  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerseyben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Blacksmith token! Nice condition too.
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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2017  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great OP Colonial! Here is some added info:
https://coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoi...h.intro.html
New Member
United States
20 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2017  04:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FirstFrom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NickelGuy: Yeah, that store is long-gone. It was in the Mission District of San Francisco, and I think it might have been a front for some sort of gambling parlor, because middle-aged guys would frequently come in and -- after a nod to the owner -- go straight through some beaded curtains to the back of the store. Teen-aged me was usually the only person actually looking at coins. There were dozens of boxes of foreign stuff, and I'd hunt for an hour, pull out a dozen interesting things, and then the owner would give me a price that seemed to be based solely on the number of silver coins in my pile -- he didn't seem to care about the copper at all. The price was always something less than ten bucks, even when I'd found a couple of those low-mintage 1920's Canadian small cents. Ah, the good old days. And yes, I feel lucky that I've got such an interesting (and somewhat valuable) coin. And I like the look of the one you posted -- the lettering on it adds to the appeal I think.

Thank you jerseyben and TJcoins as well. The hyperlinked article was interesting; I guess these guys could make 100 fake halfpennies for significantly less than 50 cents out of pocket. Who woulda thunk it.
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NH collector's Avatar
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2017  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NH collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe it to be a contemporary British counterfeit. It loosely resembles the Blacksmith token, however the profile of the head doesn't match the picture. Look at the nose size.
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