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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,874 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3098 Posts |
I spent $35 to win a three coin lot of low grade denarii from the ebay seller "ancientground". This seller has 9500+ feedback and, as far as I can tell from the other coins he offers, is not offering fakes. The coin in the upper left caught my eye because it sure looks like Otho. The reverse has been horribly scraped. The coins arrived today. The "Otho" appears to be silver, although there is one spot on the obverse rim above Otho's forehead where the silver is a bit chipped. I'm not sure if it's damage or a hint that it might be a fouree. It is 15x16 mm. and only weighs 1.46 grams; understandable with all that's been done to it. It's hard to tell much of anything from the reverse, although there is a chance there may be a figure standing left, with the right arm extended downward. So, as of now I'm not sure if this is a deliberately disfigured modern fake, an ancient fouree, or a truly beat up and abused Otho denarius. If it is real, does anyone have ideas why someone would scrape up the reverse while leaving the obverse untouched? Boredom? Making it into a pin or jewelry of some sort? Reverse " darn atio"? (If there even is such a thing.) Opinions are most welcome. At any rate, I thought it was worth a shot as a fun coin to investigate. I'll sell the other two coins in the lot to get back a bit of my money, so I'm not out much if it is a fake.     Paul Bulgerin
Edited by Paul Bulgerin
10/03/2017 9:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3098 Posts |
Sorry about the "darn atio"! Auto correct won't let me spell the correct word.
Paul Bulgerin
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Moderator
 United States
34416 Posts |
Interesting coin and I agree that the rev damage is odd. It looks puposeful, like the prior owner was trying to remove the rev details, but not in an orderly way such as if this were going to be mounted or turned into a love token. Also, some of the gouges look pretty large and have exposed deep portions of the coin. Those inner recesses all look like silver, right?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
No copper shows anywhere on the reverse, even with all the gouges. That's why I think it is silver.
Paul Bulgerin
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Moderator
United States
34416 Posts |
Exactly my thinking why this likely isn't a fouree. I'll be interested to hear what some of the other folks think as well.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
Usually if a coin is defaced they do it to the obverse, strange to see it done to the reverse.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3442 Posts |
Otho wore a "rug" did he not ?
(he is one of my MIA's ..... no bronze !)
This fellow shows quite a bit of roof
I am tempted to think it may have been a low grade Vespasian that someone tooled to make it look like someone they know.
A gift for uncle Willie.
Either way it appears to be unique !
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
it appears you've discovered one of those fun mysteries that is difficult to decipher. My first thought would have been Otho too.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Occam's razor says assume it's an early Vespasian and work from there. That said, I don't see any indication of a laurel, nor signs of removing one. Vespasian issued very few bare headed denarii, none of them facing right.  |
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Valued Member
Canada
266 Posts |
Quote:I spent $35 to win a three coin lot of low grade denarii from the ebay seller "ancientground". This seller has 9500+ feedback and, as far as I can tell from the other coins he offers, is not offering fakes. I can see multiple fakes among the coins he is selling + he is on fake sellers lists.. |
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
2752 Posts |
Quote:
he is on fake sellers lists.. Where is the fake sellers list please? Paul |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
2752 Posts |
Thanks!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
Thanks! I had not seen that.
So, maybe it's not a real . . . defaced . . . whatever . . . Otho after all.
Paul Bulgerin
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Pillar of the Community
United States
949 Posts |
I'm sure it's not Otho, Paul. The features are not right. A bare headed Vespasian is a better candidate, despite the rarity factor. Another better candidate is Vitellius. His entire first series of coins was bareheaded, and he also has the portly look we associate with Vitellius. But judging by the appearance, I would look for someone from the Imperatorial period. Some of those coins had a portrait on both sides, one of which may have been effaced on your coin. RSC illustrates such a coin of Lepidus and Augustus which actually could be a candidate. Late Republican figure perhaps?
As to the defacing of the reverse, I would not read too much into that. It may have been done as a dammnatio (intentionally misspelled), of course, or it may have been done centuries after the fact as a special prep of the reverse for mounting the coin on something portrait side out. Since the obverse inscription was already naturally effaced, no need to deface anything there. What is left is an image of a portly old man.
Edited by lrbguy
10/05/2017 11:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
I sold the other two worn denarii that came with this one, so I got a good portion of my $35 back.
I'm still not sure if it's a deliberately beaten up modern fake or something else. I'm working on creating side-by-side shots of this coin with Otho, Vitellius and Vespasian. It continues to provide me with some numismatic detective fun.
Paul Bulgerin
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,874 |
Posted 10/03/2017 9:25 pm
