1733 Mexico 8 Reales Mo-Mf Information Wanted

Before you run off (and this was seriously just to start a collection and not to resell?!!)...

If you acquaintance would let you, can you take a decent photo of the entire group laid out together - fronts and then backs if possible? It would be interesting to see the totality of the grouping...

And you're saying photos and film... so was this guy indeed involved with the salvage efforts?

Were you to buy the grouping... you should absolutely ask for at least copies (if he wants to keep the originals) and whatever pictures, film (!), and whatever other mementos he may have. That type of ephemera is important in and of itself, and certainly matched along with the actual coins. Does he have any artifacts?

Any film footage might be particularly interesting.

"usual 38.0 to 39.0, min 37.0 and max 42.0"

But are we talking absolute largest & smallest individual pieces ever seen... or min/max "average" for a given year/part-year? In other words, that might mean the minimum "typical" size may be, say... 1766 strikes (which off-hand I know are quite compact, often little/no dents. showing)... while maybe known large-flan year 1735 is the largest ON AVERAGE?

All I know is that the aside from the diameter, what we see of the faces looks OK, the material it's with seems to be a legit grouping that such a piece could/should be with... and those several 1733 pieces from Sedwick clearly look quite large (though HOW large?).

I don't know... it would certainly be an anomaly, but this was a period of transition at Mexico's mint. E.g.... four different types (counting where they obviously used Klippe dies but on an undoubtedly COB planchet)... and in addition there are several examples of the Klippe dies stamping a ROUND planchet.

Yeah, 44mm WOULD seem to be rather outlandish... AND if it was to be 44, there probably SHOULD be some combo of more open spacing plus fuller/longer denticles... unless all of the interior design is made from larger punches, which isn't likely (two different size crowns aside).

Also, looking again at that pic of the 1733 between the two 1736 pieces... not the greatest pic quality, but it does look kind of cast-like. And of course, if a fake was to be snuck into a group like this, the key date would be the suspect.

Has me looking at that klippe again. Though again, slightly grainy pics... does seem to have perhaps too many raised micro-dots.

You have had the opinion of an "expert" here using an image. Just a suggestion. Note what he posted about the 1733 coins and the number of fakes. I'd advise you have the seller send both 1733 coins to be authenticated. But what do I know, I'm not the expert. :)

"both were XRF tested"

Keep in mind, even if fake, a piece like this would be done in correct silver alloy... Unless the XRF is a sophisticated desktop unit and shows detailed trace element composition - and those traces are in fact correct for Mexican pieces of that time frame - simply popping at low 90s silver percentage doesn't prove much.

Indeed, did see that the 1733 pillar and the klippe were recently auctioned, though by a generic auctioneer and not a numismatic house such as Spink,s, DNW, London Coins.

Thanks for the update.




That removes my main suspicion.

I hope the original owner got more than £200.

I somehow missed this thread when it started. The coins look like Hollandia coins though I would never say that with certainty from looking at a picture online. However I have not seen very much material from that wreck that did not have certs. Did this seller work the salvage, as was asked earlier? If so I would have expected him to have certs.
As for size, I have 11 1733 pillars, the smallest coming in at 39.72 and the largest at 40.92. Most of them are between 40.35 nd 40.43. When the discussion was talking about a 44mm pillar I was shaking my head, but like jgenn that subsided with the correct 40mm measurement. I would be interested to see what the pillar sold for at auction, does someone have that info? The MoMF is the one 1733 variety that has a significant number of non salvage examples out there, I would be surprised if that coin brought a high value in that corroded condition.