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 Replies: 45 / Views: 14,277 |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
finally two more photo's of the common type 2 from 1576 (in fact produced somewhere between mid 1576 and 1588) the clear metamorphosis of the knight from type 1a via type 1b to type 2 should be understood in the context of a most precarious situation of the Dutch revolt end of 1575 (november 1575: the fury of Antwerp; chaos in the Spanish Netherlands) and a growing self-confidence of Holland and Zeeland in the years that followed an amazing story - read from these early Dutch coins - that perhaps deserves to be better known this piece is remarkable for the details in the small lion (OBV)   |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
1c5d7n5m said: Quote:
sorry I join this interesting thread so late, I am a newcomer  1c5d7n5m and thank you for your insightful remarks! |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
thanks jgenn !
has your type 1576 been mounted in a pendant before?
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Pillar of the Community
Netherlands
521 Posts |
I have an Italian issue of Corregio from 1597, imitated after a Holland type Lions dollar during the rule of Camillo d' Austria. Obv: * CAM * AVS * CIV * 15 - 97 * MO * NO COM * CO */knight with coat of arms Rev: Rose * CONFID * DNO * NO * MOVET* P * SOL * SE */Lion left To make it even more interesting, it's a miss-strike.   Edited by Archeo1982
01/05/2018 08:04 am
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
very interesting coin indeed Archeo1982!
you are probably aware of the fact that the imitations (Italy, Rietberg, Emden) get auctioned at higher priced than the "originals"
the double strike is interesting as well and worth a small story:
these coins were made by a human hand hammering on one of the dies
all coins were made by two blows in those days, apparently this coin was displaced a bit after the first strike
the Dutch have still a proverb that is used quite often today
"de eerste klap is een daalder waard" (translated something like "the first strike is worth a taler") it means : a good beginning is the most important part of the job
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
1c5d7n5m said: Quote:
thanks jgenn !
has your type 1576 been mounted in a pendant before? I don't know if it was mounted but you may be right. It came with a hand written collection tag that said it was recovered from the wreck of the Kampen. |
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Pillar of the Community
Netherlands
521 Posts |
I'm aware of that indeed. But normally, when a coin was miss-struck, the piece was taken out of the process and was melted again.
The fields of the Low countries contain a lot coins, lost over centuries. Some of them are rare nowadays.
Also still in use, the proverb: "Op de markt is een gulden een daalder waard" At the market, a guilder is worth a thaler. Means: at the market, one can get more for less.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
jgenn said: Quote:
it was recovered from the wreck of the Kampen then it is quite unlikely that this coin was ever mounted in a pendant as it was earmarked for international trade this may be an interesting website for your coin https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?140480"On 23/10/1627, KAMPEN, carrying silver species, was lost in a storm on her first voyage to the East, off the Needles, Isle of Wight. 160 crew and soldiers managed to reach the shore. The wreck was salvaged in 1627-1628 days by diver 'Jacob de Duiker' and 2365 Reales were saved. In 1979 the wreck was re-discovered and this time, about 8.000 Reales and Leeuwendaalders were salvaged." |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Good succinct summary of what's what on the 1575 & 1576 dates... thanks. Interesting about the 1576 date being "frozen", which makes sense from the amount I've seen... HOWEVER, I do know that there is a 1577 (I believe Holland) date for the leeuwendaalder.
PS - That Italian imitation is a great piece!
PPS - jgenn: your nice 1576 is decidedly NOT salvage. That Campen (Kampen) tag was mismatched to it at some point... perhaps innocently in error, but of course probably not. The Kampen is not really a rare and/or spectacularly value-adding provenance, so it doesn't matter much for that purpose.
1610s are typical Campen dates, as I recall (1616, 1617). Many different promotional packagings have been offered...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
That first type (1A, 1575) is particularly crude and simplistic...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
realeswatcher said: Quote:
PPS - jgenn: your nice 1576 is decidedly NOT salvage. That Campen (Kampen) tag was mismatched to it at some point... perhaps innocently in error, but of course probably not. The Kampen is not really a rare and/or spectacularly value-adding provenance, so it doesn't matter much for that purpose. The piece did come from a collection in the UK, provenance otherwise unknown. If the shipwreck attribution is correct, perhaps it came from the earlier salvage, shortly after the wreck. Without a definitive certification, of course, it's just speculation and, as you noted, not value-adding. |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
@realeswatcher Quote:
That first type (1A, 1575) is particularly crude and simplistic... a point that cannot be denied; and above is one of the best strikes I've seen; the other 10 or so I know are weak to very weak, almost clumsy strikes this revolutionary coin was an act of war, with death penalty as result ; so probably old staff (who made beautiful coins under spanish rule) left the mint and new people set up the revolutionary mint and indeed they started in a clumsy manner yet it is interesting to see the metamorphosis the "knight" of type 1a is a feeble person without a face - a nobody; the "independent" state of Holland was in mortal danger that same year in type 1b the "knight" is a almost a clown-like figure mocking the official power in type 2 the final image matured, an anonymous knight in place of the king it took 5 more years for the Dutch Declaration of Independence (26-07-1581) (Plakkaat van Verlatinghe - "Oath of Abjuration") from the Spanish king |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
@realeswatcher Quote:
HOWEVER, I do know that there is a 1577 (I believe Holland) date for the leeuwendaalder. nice to be challenged when traveling, I need the Delmonte Silver Benelux which is at home however I am quite sure the 1577 date (as well as 1578) applies to the HALF Leeuwendaalder Holland; R2, so not so easy to find I collected a few of them (there are interesting die types), here's an example I bought last year in Holland  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
@mysilveryears Quote:
Here is my 1576. The last two digits of the date are sort of hard to read. the 7 is readable but the 6 not what is the weight and size of your coin? if it is a half 1577 or 1578 leeuwendaalder, it is one of the best pieces I've seen and more valuable than a 1576 whole leeuwendaalder |
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Replies: 45 / Views: 14,277 |
First Page
Posted 01/03/2018 9:49 pm
