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 Replies: 12 / Views: 4,103 |
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Valued Member
Canada
324 Posts |
Hey y'all, I've got some old ICCS graded coins (2 letter certification numbers) that I'm thinking might grade higher than what the package suggests. I'm hesitant to remove them from the old packages so I spoke with ICCS and they will re-grade them in the original packages and if they re-grade higher they will remove them, regrade, and re-package. If the grade remains the same (or less) they will leave them in the current package.
A lot of my coins are AU to MS Queen Victoria/Edward 5 cent coins which seem to increase in value quite significantly with a single point or two.
I'm curious how likely it is that ICCS would basically say 'although we graded this as an MS-64 15 years ago, we now think its an MS-65.' Has anyone ever tried something like this before with any level of success with 'old' graded coins?
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Valued Member
Canada
299 Posts |
I didn't know ICCS would do that.
I have removed several coins from embossed ICCS holders for re-submission, especially if they were MS-60 and the regraded coins have come back (on average) MS-63 in a new 3 letter holder. Embossed MS-62s may come back as 63/64. The higher the grade for an embossed coin, the chances of a bounce to an even higher grade or multiple grade jump lessens, in my experience.
I haven't re-submitted anything below MS though...so don't know what odds are for higher.
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Valued Member
Canada
288 Posts |
It might be worth the effort to have someone well-versed in grading take a look at your coins. It would be too difficult to say one way or another without the coins in had. I've seen two letter/embossed certs I thought would upgrade move up three/four points, and others I thought would upgrade go down (although they corrected that when I told them). It could be a crapshoot.
Edited by NumisCat
10/13/2017 12:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Seems like a can't lose situation, except for some shipping charges, why not
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Moderator
 Canada
10456 Posts |
I see two outcomes here:
If most of the coins stay the same grade... then ICCS would be sticking to their original opinion.
If most of the coins bump up a grade... then it would be an acknowledgement by ICCS of "grade creep" with their standards over time
Obviously, being a business, they'll happily take your money to do what you ask... but if you were in their shoes, which option would you take?
MY advice? Remove the potential for bias entirely, cut them out and resubmit raw. Compare, and share with us, your before and after results.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
Grade creep is reality. Although lately the US services seem to be tightening again.
We actively look for old (embossed) ICCS coins in Mint State , cut them out and resubmit. Over half will upgrade , the rest stay pretty much the same with a small amount decreasing.
Sort of like poker you can expect a positive outcome over a long period of time if you are both skilled and lucky.
Agree with Roger cut em out eliminate any bias!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I wouldn't do it at all!!
There is a chance the coin will grade higher, but.......
a lower grade two letter old ICCS certed coin is worth more than a one grade higher three letter ICCS cert.
It's analogous to a PCGS ms60 with a CAC gold sticker is worth more than a PCGS ms62 without a CAC sticker.
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/13/2017 4:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
I had one experience with this. I cut out an MS64 George V 10 cent coin and it came back MS65 :) I would agree with SPP....cut them out first.
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Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts |
Does this mean that in 10 years time, you can cut them out again re-submit them and move up a grade, I have never heard anything so stupid. All your doing is making profits for these companies. long may the raw coin live.
D.
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Valued Member
 Canada
324 Posts |
Thanx y'all. I may try it with a few coins and share the results if I do. I appreciate your opinions. pennypincher1 - The coins I tend to keep for myself are raw as well but if you're selling them online (as I also do) then having a TPG like ICCS is the most helpful sales tool available and well worth the money. I love and appreciate ICCS' service and am quite happy to financially support them. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
All your doing is making profits for these companies and for yourself, albeit at the expense of who ever you sell it to. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
If I shared my results, you'd all be running for the exacto knife.
All 2 letter ICCS embossed certs went down to PCGS in the same old embossed certs but with the grade in the right corner removed. Now back in well protected holders..
Did not want them to be "badly" influenced or to try and make me happy by bumping them all up a grade.
"Grade creep" is real,..you just have to compare the very old conservative embossed ICCS certs/grades with the modern X files from ICCS.
All of the dealers that we see here and at the shows know this fact and act accordingly.. They buy them up as quickly as they can..
..and..
Clear flips or 2 x 2's are not always the best way to store a coin.
Case in point #1...
is the 1859 DP 9 # 1 cent. Very tough in high grade and the highest point on the cent is not the rim. It's the bottom of the 1 in the date. In a flip, the 1 is rubbing at all times and that's why the bottom of the 1 spreads out wider in all midgrade examples. It's constantly wearing in any soft flip or with any circulation.
Case in point #2...
Edward 5 cent coins are often hard to grade as the beard disappears quickly, and high grade examples are very tough to find.
Many of these 5 cent silvers are convex with the beard sitting higher than the rim.. so wear starts there immediately.. even as they left the mint.
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Valued Member
Canada
324 Posts |
Thanx for the info Devlec. I agree with your opinion of Edward coins. I've got a 1908 Large 8 graded MS-64 in an old ICCS flip and I can hardly see the beard due to its convex strike (as well as the coins dark toning). The best way I've found to see the beard perfectly struck is to look at a specimen strike coin.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 4,103 |
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Posted 10/13/2017 12:34 pm
