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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,142 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
413 Posts |
Realeswatcher, Are you saying that the seller is selling a fake real coin? How can we prevent such sales from happening on ebay and on other online auctions? I welcome your expertise. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Not the same coin. Look a little closer.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
Not the same exact coin, but matches all the diagnostics, which in this case are imperfections and damage added to the die/mold to make it look more convincing.
Also, 0.4 ounces? That's only around 12 grams. Pretty sure the coin in the listing is not nearly that lightweight.
Edited by Numismat
11/13/2017 8:16 pm
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Valued Member
United States
413 Posts |
I am impressed that @ moxking and @Numismat are able to determine the coin is not genuine without having to seeing the coin in person. I am going to keep an eye on this post so I can learn from the experts!  |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Carringa, the Pillar Dollar as these are one of the most faked coins around. You really gotta be an expert to get anywhere near these! I sure don't!
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Valued Member
United States
413 Posts |
@ Crazyb0, same here! I cannot tell if this coin is genuine or fake. Heard that the Pillar Dollars are most counterfeit coin out there. :(
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5176 Posts |
Quote:
I am impressed that @ moxking and @Numismat are able to determine the coin is not genuine without having to seeing the coin in person. To be fair, identical damage spots are pretty darn unlikely to show up accidentally, so they were probably done deliberately, therefore the coins are counterfeit. Pretty sure @moxking and @Numismat basically worked the same way. It's finding that identical pair that's the hard part; once you found it, figuring out they're both fake is pretty obvious. Presumably the people at NGC weren't that lucky. Edited by january1may
11/14/2017 11:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7627 Posts |
Both coins have the same fake toning around the devices to help give them that "aged" look. Typical of Chinese sourced counterfeits.
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Valued Member
United States
413 Posts |
@ january1may and @ westernsky, thank you for sharing your knowledge with me. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1962 Posts |
Note that the "twin" was discovered because the ebay coin on its own was suspect and some digging was done. The surfaces/scattered discrete pores (not the rim funniness, which is not abnormal for this period Mexico City) were the problem... The same issues exist on the NGC to Stack's coin. If raw, that coin may have attracted more scrutiny by the Stack's team (Ponterio was always a specialist in Mexican/Latin). Of course, as it was certified, the specimen would certainly get glossed over by the auctioneer moreso than if raw, and likely assumed legit without a 2nd look. However, also note that it was part of a strong Pillar 4R grouping... you would think the consignor is also rather knowledgeable, and he got fooled also. It's clearly a "not bad" fake... but NGC probably could have caught it if someone took some time on it. Edited by realeswatcher
11/14/2017 7:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I agree that both coins were made from the same dies/molds and that post strike identifiers are a match. There is no need to see the coin in person to know beyond serious doubt that both are numismatic forgeries.
Both coins look suspicious at the outset - but finding the "clone" is exactly what some people must be shown before they will believe. The coin is a decent forgery but one that should have raised suspicion.
Good work realeswatcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
574 Posts |
I'd imagine the NGC slab could be as fake as the coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
beem You say: Quote:
I'd imagine the NGC slab could be as fake as the coin. I have a dozen or more contemporary counterfeits that have been encapsulated by all three of the big TPG's which say they are not necessarily fake. The slabs should not be considered to be forgeries simply because the graders slabbed counterfeits. They do not spend enough time with each coin to recognize if they are forgeries or not. They do not routinely weigh coins, they do not routinely do density testing nor any other test used to confirm the alloy. Expertise in older world coins is not always present.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,142 |
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Posted 11/13/2017 7:31 pm
