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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,363 |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Here's an article I've come across that really explains some of the fine points of mintmarks on US coins since inception. Answering questions of When and Where were they applied, or why the different sizes of mintmarks. Maybe you'll see why you can have an RPM but not a doubled die or vice versa, a doubled die but the mintmark is unaffected. https://www.NGCcoin.com/news/article/682/Punching a Mintmark into a Die  Can you answer the question of how an Over Mintmark (OVM) occurs? ORCan you answer where the above picture was taken?  Edited by Crazyb0
11/27/2017 1:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5029 Posts |
Good read.
OMM answer.
It occurs when a die goes from one facility to another and the new mint mark is punched in over the old mint mark.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Quote:
A common misconception is that mintmarks were applied to the dies at their respective branch mints, but this would have required that each facility have its own set of puncheons. Instead, all dies were prepared and their mintmarks applied at the Philadelphia Mint's Engraving Department. Thus, it was in Philadelphia that all mintmark varieties originated, though they are indelibly linked to the mint which ultimately used the dies. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5029 Posts |
Well that does make more sense. I was trying to read that on my phone and must have scrolled over that critical section.
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
Pretty cool. Thank you for sharing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
A question: wouldn't each mint have a set of punches for reconditioning the dies or were they sent back to Philly for repair?
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Rest in Peace
 10197 Posts |
Bump111, The dies were retired if they needed that amount of "reconditioning". Now supposedly all dies end up being accounted for, a numbering scheme, and are "defaced" when done with or elsewie noted as to what happens to them.
Edited by Crazyb0
11/27/2017 5:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
Thanks, crazy. So, when would the MM be repunched? If all this info is in your link I apologize. Can't see very well on my "smartphone"
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Moderator
United States
15459 Posts |
Great read ... thank you for sharing the link. I'm a bit more educated today ... and this the the result of your post and the purpose of the CCF.  Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
From the article Quote:
As indicated, this is a relatively recent development. Traditionally, mintmarks were punched into each working die. This led to numerous varieties resulting from differences in placement, depth and number of punchings. Mintmark puncheons were simply hand tools shaped something like short, thick pencils. Held against the die face, sometimes with the assistance of a jig, the puncheon was tapped with a hammer until the mintmark letter achieved the desired depth in the die. It's easy to see how a slip of the puncheon or a miscalculation in placement required that the die-sinker repeat the process. This may have resulted in repunched mintmarks (two or more overlapping impressions of the same letter) or overmintmarks (when two different punches are used). |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
So, when would the MM be repunched? It would have happened during the initial punching of the mm: Quote:
Held against the die face, sometimes with the assistance of a jig, the puncheon was tapped with a hammer until the mintmark letter achieved the desired depth in the die. It's easy to see how a slip of the puncheon or a miscalculation in placement required that the die-sinker repeat the process. This may have resulted in repunched mintmarks (two or more overlapping impressions of the same letter) or overmintmarks (when two different punches are used). If, say, the first attempt was too shallow, it would be punched again to achieve proper depth and any minute shift in the puncheon would create an RPM. Thanks for sharing, Crazyb0!  Edit: I was beat to the "punch". In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
11/27/2017 6:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7512 Posts |
Thanks for sharing Crazyb0.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Additional bit of info, on what happens to the old dies. They become "cancelled", basically destroyed to not be used again. I found this old blurb by Conder101 on the Cointalk site of old: Quote:"There are three types of US mint dies that are commonly seen on the marketpace. (commonly is a relative term) First are the 1968 S proof dies that have their faces melted with a torch. Most or all of the die face is destroyed on these. These were sold by the GSA/mint as scrap metal back in the late 60's. Next are the 1996 Olympics dies that were sold by the mint through their catalog. These have the X cut across the face of the die but the rest of the die face is intact. Finally there are the coin and die sets that were sold by the mint to colectors in the 2000's. These had the entire face of the die removed with a surface grinder leaving a flat blank surface. These are probably the most often encountered." (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ar...ave.272531/) Cancelled dies:   Note the torched die has the "collar" with it. The movable piece that will form the rim and outside of the coin upon compression |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Bump this up for tonight's viewers! Enjoy!  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
Finally there are the coin and die sets that were sold by the mint to colectors in the 2000's. These had the entire face of the die removed with a surface grinder leaving a flat blank surface. These are probably the most often encountered." I'm actually watching one of those on ebay (there are many listed). It's interesting but, I would really rather have a die that is either not cancelled or cancelled in the least destructive way, such as the X. It doesn't matter what country. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,363 |
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Posted 11/27/2017 1:48 pm
