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 Replies: 32 / Views: 3,887 |
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
Hey everyone! I guess I should start by saying I'm new to the forum. This is my first post. Also, I'm a rookie to collecting gold and silver coins. I started collecting gold and silver eagles around three months ago, and I've already got a decent collection of both.
With the above being said, I feel pretty confident about what I know about silver eagles, but I'm struggling a bit with the gold ones. I use Kitco for spot costs and have a good understanding of how that works. My dilemmas come from the mark-up premiums with the 1/10, 1/4, and 1/2 oz uncirculated coins when buying to the spot cost for those when selling to the premiums when you consider those as proofs. Then throw in the mintage quantities...OMG.
My current problem is this. I got a copy of the mintage quantities of each (gold and silver uncirculated and proofs), and began seeking out the ones with the lowest mintages to collect. That worked out fine with the silvers. As for the gold's, not so much. I researched my mintage sheets, and based on what I was able to find within my available resources, I made an offer on a 2013 gold four coin set. I factored all the above terms for what I thought this set should sell for, and it worked out to me buying it for what I offered, $2600. I thought that was a pretty good deal, based on the mintage quantities of each coin, plus the fact of what I saw others (different years) with higher mintages selling for.
I've had a few people tell me I paid too much. Some said as much as $150 too much. So folks, I present this to you. Did I pay too much for this set? If so why? What factor(s) should I consider in the future when I buy gold coins or sets? Thanks in advance for your insights...
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Moderator
 United States
188130 Posts |
 to the Community! Your post was moved to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
The last three sales I saw were $2699, $3200 and $3725 with the last two shipping not included Edited by Foxwoods Man
12/03/2017 07:24 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
$2600 is a decent price, assuming these are all bullion and not the W price.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Moxking, I believe he's talking about an ungraded 4 coin proof set, which are the W mint mark coins. With spot at $1,282.80, APMEX is currently selling a random year 4 coin set for $2,493.41 and a 2013 set for $2,698.18. So buying a 2013 set for $2,600 is probably an ok deal. However, the Red Book says that these 4 coin sets are essentially the same price regardless of the year (there are a few differences, but not many). So, if you believe that, then you should go with the APMEX random year set. Maybe this is what the folks who said you overpaid be ~$150 meant. If you not looking for a particular year, then APMEX's random deal seems pretty good. It's $55 less than the 2004 set and the 2004 set is APMEXs lowest price set at $2,548.18. Edited by BadDog
12/03/2017 1:30 pm
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New Member
 United States
8 Posts |
Foxwoods Man - were the prices you mentioned for 2013 sets? If so, what source were your prices from? Moxking - what difference does it make? These are from the ungraded mint proof set like MadDog mentioned, and gold is gold correct? I mean, regardless of them being proofs, they're still gold. And proofs such as these, based on mintage/production quantities for this specific year, should be desirable right? What I mean is that the 1/4 and 1/2 oz coins are the lowest mintage of all the gold American Eagles. That's good right? BadDog - I don't share the opinions of the Red Book based on what I would think would be more desired. i.e. key dates. Am I wrong in my thinking? As for APMEX, surely they wouldn't sell a key date set at a low price. Doesn't sound wise for them to me anyways, but here again, I'm a very green rookie...lol. |
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
Here's another question on this, why are other 4 coin proof sets (non-key date sets), like the set I bought going well over what I paid? I'm meaning well over say $3000 - $3500? I don't get it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
ccushen, Are those sets in excess of $3K TPG graded sets? APMEX doesn't list any ungraded set at those prices. Their most expensive set is the 2016 at $2,788.19. They don't have the 2017 available right now, but other bullion dealers have it for less than $3k as well. TPG graded Proof 70 sets will command a premium, as some collectors demand so called "perfect" coins. Ungraded sets don't have these premiums. I'm not exactly sure why you consider the 2013 set a key set. The Red Book isn't usually up to date on pricing, but it is usually fairly accurate in regard to relative pricing. The prices that APMEX is asking for their sets pretty much corroborates this, as there isn't much of a spread in most of their prices. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
Here's another question on this, why are other 4 coin proof sets (non-key date sets), like the set I bought going well over what I paid? I'm meaning well over say $3000 - $3500? I don't get it? Most things sell in a price range especially when you're talking about different periods of time and different venues ect. You are right that the RedBook isn't a good pricing source especially with moderns. It's good for information but the pricing is really outdated on a lot of things by the time it's printed. You did fine on your purchase. |
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
BadDog - the sets I'm looking at aren't graded. I totally get it about pricing premiums being higher on graded coins than those not graded. I don't collect graded coins specifically, as I'm primarily interested, and collecting, from the investment side of the hobby. However, that's not to say I wouldn't jump on a good deal on a graded coins if I stumbled across it...lol.
What I mean about the 2013 being a key set, is because the 1/4 and 1/2 oz coins are the lowest mintage of all the gold proof American Eagles. The next best set would be 2012 set, as it has the lowest mintage quantities for the 1/10 and 1 oz coins. This could easily be stated as the 2012 and 2013 sets are equally desirable based on the individual collector. I mean doesn't the lower the mintage quantity spark more interest in the hobby, and the more limited the coins are the more valuable they should be? The only exceptions being if someone was putting together sets, or buying other sets where a particular year is desired by the collector. Make sense now?
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
basebal21 - based only on opinion, what would you feel the 2013 set should be worth if in the same condition it was when originally purchased from the mint? I'm buying from the original owner, and it's supposed to be in perfect condition. It's due to me by Tuesday. I'm pretty stoked about it. It'll be my first proof set. I don't know what you mean by "Most things sell in a price range especially when you're talking about different periods of time and different venues ect." Please explain... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Quote:
I mean doesn't the lower the mintage quantity spark more interest in the hobby, and the more limited the coins are the more valuable they should be? Like most generalities, this one has an "it depends" associated with it. Although mintage matters, what matters more is the demand for and availability of the set. If the mintage is low, but the availability of the set is still high enough to satisfy the demand then there really won't be a premium associated with the low mintage. I guess the market is indicating that right now, the availability of this set is sufficient to satisfy the current demand for these coins by collectors. If that changes (and it can be a BIG if when gold coins are involved) in the future then I suppose that this set could command a premium. There was a recent discussion in the modern coins forum that included some comments along these lines concerning the 2012 and 2015 silver proof sets. The 2015 has the lower mintage but the 2012 has the higher price. The general consensus is that this is because the 2012 is perceived as "rare" so people who have it are reluctant to part with it. Hence its availability is low with respect to its demand and the price goes up. Time is the factor that usually sorts these things out and the true rarity of the coins will come to light. Right now, you're trying to predict this eventual outcome by considering the 2013 to be the "key" set when the market hasn't yet confirmed this. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
BadDog - I understand what you mean about the demand setting the tone for determining a key coin/set. However, how does one go about knowing/guessing what's the latest/newest item to become that sought after item? Sounds like nothing but a guessing game.
On another note, thanks for the info you're providing here. An education is a priceless thing...lol.
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
Foxwoods Man - Thanks for the info!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote:
I'm buying from the original owner, and it's supposed to be in perfect condition. It's due to me by Tuesday. The condition of your coins is a key to determining whether or not they'll hold a numismatic premium. When/if you go to sell, most potential buyers will want to pay what the gold's worth because they're not interested in the numismatic aspect of the coins. In order to get the numismatic premium, you'll have to find a collector. Having perfect condition coins makes it much more probable that a collector will make the purchase. I think the logic of your purchase is sound. |
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Replies: 32 / Views: 3,887 |
Posted 12/03/2017 07:22 am
