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 Replies: 43 / Views: 4,842 |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Sorry, another toning question. I'm not a grader or expert in the field but it's kind of shocking and stunning to me how all these (so-called) Monster Toned Morgans can receive a straight grade...... http://bestofyesterdaycollectibles...._morgans.asp ....and my cheap little 46-D gets this designator. Is it a scam? Are the TPG'ers in cahoots with these large companies? I'm just an outsider looking in. Seems like these Morgans can easily be mass-produced.    |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Toning...ahhhahahahahahaha, la-bore-a tore-ee! No fan of it. It all indicates to me bad storage/handling of a coin (whether applied or not). I consider it nothing more than first stage damage, some if not properly controlled get like you example Morgan, then keep going to lose all surface originality that makes a coin lustrous. Your Cent was apparently given the "treatment". If you deal in old rolls, you get the "enders" great reverses and...nasty obverses, EVERY ender exposed to air even will "Tone", the nature of the beast. No telling what they used but it removed the fine layer of metal imperfections that make the luster, then tried to put something back(lemon juice, acidic?) The TPGs dont do this to the Morgan, it hasn't been chemically helped along it's way. THAT is what a TPG looks for,the fine metal luster detail, still there but has turned a natural alloy color. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
I totally feel your pain. I had a coin come back from NGC with a questionable color. I was not too happy. As far as being in cahoots, there's been much talk about that and some people believe that it may be true.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
There is no conspiracy. When Copper as a Coin type exhibits a color change it is virtually impossible to ever take it back to its original color. Trying to strip it down and Retone it will almost always result in surfaces that display unnatural color. The best way to learn that is by trying to do so yourself on common cents.
It won't be long before you can spot a cleaned copper from across the room.
The vast majority of PCGS and NGC in righteous holders with toning have natural toning. Some made tones might slip through, but not many.
If you don't like them, don't buy them. Easy.
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Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts |
I guess the beginner Artificial Toners practice on Lincolns and when they perfect their craft they advance to Morgans.  Edited by Mark1959
12/09/2017 9:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
That Morgan is a true monster. Aside from the correct progression it has pull away toning whicj cannot be duplicated by doctors.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Learning what happens with different chemicals to strip or add color does not indicate any intention of attempting to sell such creations.
I purchased every easily available common coin cleaning chemical and practiced with them on junk silver, copper, and nickel.
For the few dollars invested and the few hours spent I learned what happens with those different attempts. It helped me avoid buying played with coins.
Other than reselling the silver back at junk prices I never sold anything from my experiments.
The ability to be bad does not mean that someone will be bad.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
A coin with rainbow toning is in a delicate unstable state between as issued blast white, and stable full gray.
Enjoy it while you can.
I think that in this case, the TPGrader has said it right.
My gut feeling is that it is not natural. That doesn't bother me much.
I am a bit more forgiving than most, knowing that the current toning will change. I would ignore the 'details' in this case, and simply would be tempted to buy it on it's base merits, and ignore the toning, whatever the cause.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I guess the beginner Artificial Toners practice on Lincolns and when they perfect their craft they advance to Morgans.
Should be the other way around - Lincolns are not at all easy to tone artificially. The conditions under which color forms on a Lincoln are far more difficult. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Quote:
Should be the other way around - Lincolns are not at all easy to tone artificially. The conditions under which color forms on a Lincoln are far more difficult. Except for blue  |
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Pillar of the Community
 5464 Posts |
That stinkin 46-D of mine, I can tell you for a fact that it was in an old Whitman folder since I was a kid back in the 60's and was never touched (at least be me). Although, I can't say where it was between 46 and the year I put it in the album. How the TPG'ers can tell if a coin has been tampered with is beyond me but I guess that's why they're graders and I'm not. Thanks for all your feedbacks. I'm digesting it and filing it away. Thanks! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
It's not about tampered with or AT vs NT. It's about market acceptable color and non-market acceptable color. The grader that saw your coin didn't like the look of it and deemed it NMA. You can always try again.
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Okay sorry, educate me again. AT? NT? NMA= Not Market Acceptable.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
Okay sorry, educate me again. AT? NT? NMA= Not Market Acceptable.
AT = artificial toning NT = natural toning There used to be a believe that as long as something was natural it should straight grade, but some natural toning can be extremely ugly. The market and the TPGs have moved on from the NT vs AT which was just educated guessing to whether or not something is market acceptable. |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Thanks for that basebal21! Hmmm, Market Acceptable? That's a problem for me. So you're telling me the TPG'ers determine if a coin is market acceptable or not? A coin can be artistically toned (tampered with), the TPG'ers knows it but still could say it's market acceptable and gives it a straight grade? Shouldn't it be me and you determining if a coin is "market acceptable" and not the TPG'ers? I want the facts from them, not their personal opinions. Edited by USSID18
12/10/2017 1:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
If the grader thinks ots been artificially toned they will call it not market acceptable and bag it. If a coin is artificially toned but hasthe correct progression and look to it who's to say it wasn't natural because they weren't there. Hence the need to shift to market acceptable or not instead of AT/NT
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Replies: 43 / Views: 4,842 |
Posted 12/09/2017 8:51 pm
