| Author |
 Replies: 43 / Views: 4,852 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 5464 Posts |
Quote:
If the grader thinks its been artificially toned they will call it not market acceptable and bag it. If a coin is artificially toned but has the correct progression and look to it who's to say it wasn't natural because they weren't there. Hence the need to shift to market acceptable or not instead of AT/NT That works for me....case closed. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
A problem with the term "market acceptable":
it is subjective.
It cannot be scaled like 'condition'.
One collector's preference can be another collector's dislike.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
It's frustrating in that you know this coin's history as it has been in your possession (a Whitman album) for 50years. Obviously the TPG thought it was something else. Keep in mind they look at a coin for less than 2 minutes. They have a lot of knowledge and experience but they aren't perfect. What's just as frustrating is how many Seated coins I see (dollars especially) that have had obvious cleanings but get straight graded and they call this penny "recolored"? (I get the feeling that basebal is going to get after me now) |
|
Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
sel_69l, chesterb- good points! I guess this case/subject will never be closed!
|
|
Moderator
 United States
189502 Posts |
Quote: So you're telling me the TPG'ers determine if a coin is market acceptable or not? No, the market determines it. Says so right in the term.  Quote:
A problem with the term "market acceptable":
it is subjective. That is not a problem. People will either buy it or they will not. They will pay a premium or they will not. The market makes the determination. You can call something market acceptable all day long, but if it does not sell it is not. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
USS1D18, it seems TPG's have all tightened up recently with toned coins. Any question at all, they are bodybagging them. Not fair to you thats for sure, but not bad for the hobby. The rainbow morgan in the first post shows several characteristics that the coin docs can't reproduce. As Cascade said, pull away toning is present, the color progression is not anly correct but there is a nice flow to it, and the elevation chromatics are certainly there as well. I keep hearing that naturally toned coins are unstable and are prone to change over time. I have had the pleasure of viewing Bryan Sonnier's trio of monster toned 78-CC Morgans, and several others from his collection. They have not changed one bit since he aquired them many moons ago. Same with Andrew Kimmel and the late Mike Defalco. They were collecting monster toned coins when they were considered nothing but tarnished, and have owned coins for decades without seeing any change. Toning, so long as it has not progressed to far, once removed from the toning source (such as the mint bag) not only becomes stable but actually protects the coins surface. If someone, anyone, could please show me a photo of a naturally toned coin that has turned I would love to see it. I'm having a difficult time digesting this whole AT/NT and market acceptable discussion. I can't recall seeing PCGS use the phrase market acceptable, they use questionable when they are not convinced it is natural. Market acceptable has a negative connotation, and suggests that so long as a coin docs work is good then who cares how it was produced. By the same logic then, does it matter if a coin has been whizzed, tooled, mintmark altered or messed with in any other way so long as the work is good?  How about Natural and Questionable toning? |
|
Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
I agree with you regarding this whole Market Acceptable thing! Quote:
They were collecting monster toned coins when they were considered nothing but tarnished, I think you just cut through all the BS and answered my question.  Until someone had a brainstorm and said, "Hey, forget this tarnished thing and started seeing $$$$ signs with these Morgans! That's the true market, wouldn't you agree? Edited by USSID18
12/12/2017 10:03 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
I disagree that TPG's should delve into market acceptability. It would seem that they set themselves up as experts in grading and authenticity. With this perspective in mind, the two coins in this thread aren't designating market acceptability, but rather authenticity. The Morgan was deemed to be natural whereas the Lincoln was deemed to have been "played" with. Regardless of whether or not this was the case, an expert was paid for his opinion and that's what he gave. With that said, I personally don't care for toning, because regardless of how pleasing it may look, it doesn't represent the coin in mint state and can detract from the details. That's just my personal opinion though. Every collector has their own opinion as to what is acceptable, there may be norms in the market, but there will always be those who choose to collect outside the norms. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
I agree that toning is subjective regarding appeal. I like some toning and dislike some. I could play devil's advocate about whether a toned coin deviates from Mint State, though. I've seen lots of brown cents that have been designated as MS. Personally, I think I prefer a shiney brown cent sometimes? "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Quote:
I could play devil's advocate about whether a toned coin deviates from Mint State, though According to PCGS, toned or blast white should have no bearing on whether a coin is considered mint state or not. It should be based on whether the coin has seen any circulation, and if it has been artificially altered (details holder). From the PCGS website..... Quote:
Mint State (MS)
The numerical grades MS-60 through MS-70, used to denote a business strike coin that never has been in circulation. A Mint State coin can range from one that is covered with marks (MS-60) to a flawless example (MS-70). Over time, I have come to appreciate original, thick skinned coins. Beautiful toning can certainly be a plus but is not necessary for me to be attracted to a piece. To each their own though, that is one of the cool things about this hobby.  Edited by hadleydog
12/13/2017 06:10 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4870 Posts |
This may not be popular but I think toned coins when slabbed should be marked "Details". I find toning hideous and consider it environmental damage.
|
|
Moderator
United States
189502 Posts |
Quote:
This may not be popular but I think toned coins when slabbed should be marked "Details". I find toning hideous and consider it environmental damage. Good thing you are not in charge then.   |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Quote:
This may not be popular but I think toned coins when slabbed should be marked "Details". I find toning hideous and consider it environmental damage. To each their own. Interesting to note that the Eliasburg, Pogue, Greene, Clapp and Simpson collections, acknowledged as some of the greatest collections ever assembled, were anything but devoid of toned coins. Just saying.  Edited by hadleydog
12/13/2017 09:52 am
|
|
Moderator
United States
189502 Posts |
Also, I do detect some subtle toning on TheForce's avatar. All in fun.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4870 Posts |
I didn't know avatars could tone! |
| |
Replies: 43 / Views: 4,852 |
First Page
Posted 12/10/2017 5:08 pm
