Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

The Sunken Die Error - Die Subsidence

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 2,113Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
CoinMasters's Avatar
United States
5964 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2017  2:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Well I've got a decent PC now, and am able to easily visit more links now. I ran across this one the other day.
http://www.error-ref.com/recurring-...dence-error/
It talks about the Die Subsidence error, aka the Sunken Die. It's an error that produces the same raised area errors on coins even though some are from different dies. On some coins it shows on the reverse, others have it on the obverse.
As many of us know, much of our understanding of the cause of different errors is very important in identifying them. Understandably so,the Mint has not always helped us understand their errors. This leaves us with "the most probable cause" route, or the "best theory" which is how we arrive at "this error is thought to be caused by". Fortunately for us, there are people that have dedicated much of their lives to this. Through their hard work and due diligence we owe them a great debt of gratitude for our numismatic knowledge. These people are known as Leading Experts. Mr. Mike Diamond is one of them and the author of the link.
In the link, the mystery seems to be why are there "Die Subsidence errors in the same location well within the die faces"? Another question is why only reverse dies and other times only obverse? Some of the possible answers are because of three heat treamtents, maybe one or more was too rapid, too slow, or interrupted at some point.
I am certainly not an expert nor will I ever be. I can think though, and feel I should contribute wherever I can. It seems to me the answer to the mystery does indeed involve the heat process/s. If the dies were affected the same, they no doubt suffered the same minting error. The heating process that affected them had to occur when the obverse and reverse dies received it separately. This may rule out one or more heating processes. Also, I think a fourth possible problem with the heating process is improper temperature (due to equipment because it recurs) , perhaps something simple as the master heat gauge. In my opinion, I think it's safe to say the cause of the Die Subsidence error is due to an improper heating process.
If you see a flaw in my rationale please advise. All opinions are welcome.
Rest in Peace
Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2017  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, was kicked around the other day on here, maybe why your posting. It isn't known exactly why, but the heat treating to temper objects such as dies does make the most sense of all the processes. It seems the 73D had multiple dies affected in quite similar (not necessarily identical) manners in similar locations. Given that the alloy mixing, pouring and forming were the same time and batch, then a faulty mix is not the problem. The only corresponding element of the process is the heating treatments to temper (make harder than the material to be altered/stamped). If one could find out just how many working dies are placed within the kiln for this, here may be the multiple dies affected in 1973.

Another question I would pose at this point is, since all dies are prepared with mintmarks at Philly, it becomes interesting that this sunken die effect hits ONLY 73D's? Are the working dies tempered AFTER the mintmark application or before, anyone know? To my mind it must be afterwards since only a specific group were effected. Otherwise an affected die could reasonably have been sent anywhere!
Edited by Crazyb0
12/11/2017 3:01 pm
Pillar of the Community
CoinMasters's Avatar
United States
5964 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2017  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the input Crazyb0, I guess we're in agrrement about the heating process. I don't know when they're tempered last . I also don't know if the error ever occurred on a D or S mint. If not, Philly can claim responsibility for these since their only RPM's were on War Nickels.
  Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 2,113Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.26 seconds to rattle this change. Forums