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1972-D LMC Is It Possible To Have A Rotated Die Clash?

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SF11Dude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Putting the experts to the test here because I dunno.

Is it possible to have a rotated die clash?


Teaser pics...they look fairly normal right?
Fairly meaning this is the 3rd one I have found with the IGWT letters cut in half...
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SF11Dude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL CCF MEMBERS!

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BigSilver's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To answer your question- yes. It is not very common, because you 1st have a die that is placed incorrectly, and then another event happens where the dies clash, and then the die gets placed correctly while still retaining the clash marks.
So, could happen. Especially since after a clash it would be expected that the die be removed for an attempt at polishing out the clash.
I did once find a 3cn that had a rotated reverse, with a die clash that was from thr regular die placement. That is nearly the same, but one fewer step.
As far as the coin posted, I am not seeing it, but that would be cool.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks BigSilver, it makes sense the way you explained it.

I started looking because the MM JDLR (just didn't look right) so I "preserved" it with pure acetone to see better. Looks like another D south of top D.

Then I noticed NW of the date what looks to me like a clear "N" maybe from ONE or CENT based on the size and definition
and I thought 'not possible', but then I noticed more die clash markings around Liberty and then a very clear "U" behind Lincoln's head like in Unum.

There is also something going on with his bowtie and vest, common to the 1972-D Die Clashes I found already.
this makes the 3rd one with the IGWT letters cut in half.

I do not have the ability to create a rotated overlay but just looking at the markers from the great overlay Jason did, it seemed to line up.
I wanted to know from the CCF experts if it was possible. Could this may be an RPM Rotated Die Clash?

I will walk you around the coin with pictures (Section & zoom) from the MM to date, bowtie, Liberty, to IGWT and hopefully you see what I think I am seeing.

I apologize for the quality of my pictures, this seems to be very hard for me and/or my equipment to be good at.

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SF11Dude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks John1!
These links are awesome but how do you guys remember which ones to go to for what?
I spend a lot of time fumbling around researching, except for Spike Heads - I got that one!

From your awesome link:
Characteristic of the Liberty marking but more going on I think...
http://www.maddieclashes.com/tdc-1c-1972d-01/
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SF11Dude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Forgot to include Jason's overlay. Dangit!

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 Posted 01/01/2018  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the "WE TRUST" picture it also appears Lincoln's forehead is missing...I can tell there was a scuff below it but the forehead line is missing with just a blob in the void.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2018  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When die polishing happens some field devices are affected. But after several die polishing then devices on the motto and LIBERTY get thinner because the devices are tapered. The more the side is polished, the more wider part of the devices are affected. On your coin the polishing was sever on the motto area. Thus the devices are narrow. When the devices are over worked on the bust, then the neck, throat areas can be reduced. They were there when the die was new, now altered/weakened by the polishing. This happens on the reverse and well as obverse devices. While they look interesting, all the coins struck with that die will look like that as the die ages until it is retired.
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Floating roofs, Missing VDB (They VDB is incuse, so when the die is over polished, it removed the raised letters on the die, showing them as missing) Missing hind legs, missing foot/leg, missing mint marks on the 1922-D cents. All caused by the same thing. Over polished dies.
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 Posted 01/01/2018  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SF11Dude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coop, thanks for all the great visuals along with the explanation.
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