Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

US Paper Money Discriminates

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,864Next Topic  
Valued Member
LeAnn's Avatar
United States
429 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  1:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add LeAnn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just read this on yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080520.../blind_money

How do other countries handle this? Make paper bills different sizes? Raise printing? Use coins?

LeAnn
Edited by LeAnn
05/20/2008 1:10 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep

And stoplights discriminate against colorblind people.

Change Green, Yellow & Red to Go, Go Really Fast, & Stop

------------

And I'm not saying this cause I see Orange, Orange, White
Edited by GO
05/20/2008 1:22 pm
Valued Member
Dillon's Avatar
United States
240 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dillon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand where it is coming from, but I don't believe it is to the extent of discrimination... I think that word is used too much. Like they said in the article, no one is holding them back from spending the money. I meen if they dont like using dollars, there is always change!, or they can just use their credit card.
Edited by Dillon
05/20/2008 2:44 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"To actually be discriminated against is to have something denied to you," Richardson said. "We're not denied the use of money."

Bedrock of the Community
biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The interesting thing about this case is that there is a large population in the blind community that is opposed to this because they do not want to be treated differently from anyone else. They have figured out ways to differentiate bills and they are of the opinion that a crutch such as bills of differing size shows that they cannot function as normal, productive members of society without significant aid.
Edited by biokemist6
05/20/2008 4:35 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
rggoodie's Avatar
United States
23478 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2008  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rggoodie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try making sense out of this
Appeals Court Rules U.S. Bills Discriminate Against Blind


By DAVID STOUT
Published: May 20, 2008

WASHINGTON — In a decision that could drastically change the appearance of American money, a federal appeals court panel ruled on Tuesday that the United States discriminates against the blind because the country's paper currency is the same size regardless of a bill's value.


The 2-to-1 ruling, which could have implications not only for blind people but also for vending machine-manufacturers and even companies that make wallets and purses, found that the Treasury Department had failed to demonstrate that it would be too burdensome to make bills of different sizes or add features that can be read by touch to distinguish monetary value.

"A large majority of other currency systems have accommodated the visually impaired, and the Secretary does not explain why U.S. currency should be any different," Judge Judith W. Rogers wrote for herself and Judge Thomas B . Griffith, referring to Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., the nominal defendant.

What happens next is not certain, but it may become clear sooner rather than later. The government could ask the full 13-member circuit court to reconsider the panel's ruling, or it could seek quick review by the Supreme Court, something it has 90 days to do.

.

"We're reviewing the court's ruling at this juncture, and no determination has been made as to the government's next step in this matter," said Charles Miller, a spokesman for the Department of Justice, which argued the case on behalf of the Treasury Department.

A lawyer for the American Council of the Blind, which brought the lawsuit in 2002, said he hoped that the government "instead of litigating the issue, would solve the problem." The Treasury Department has the means and technology to change the design of American currency to help the blind, said the lawyer, Jeffrey A. Lovitky of Washington.

The decision on Tuesday upheld a 2006 ruling by Judge James Robertson of Federal District Court, who had concluded that the government illegally discriminated against blind people by printing its paper currency on bills of the same size that cannot be distinguished by touch.

"Of the more than 180 countries that issue paper currency," Judge Robertson wrote on Nov. 28, 2006, "only the United States prints bills that are identical in size and color in all their denominations."

Judge Robertson rejected the government's arguments that making bills identifiable by touch would create an undue financial burden — an estimated $178 million for new printing presses, for instance, and up to $50 million for new plates. Those costs are not significant, given the fact that the government spent more than $4 billion producing currency in the decade before his ruling, Judge Robertson said.

The appeals court panel noted, in any event, that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing occasionally redesigns currency to thwart counterfeiters. It noted, too, that Canada redesigned its currency in 1995 to include embossed dots that vary by denomination, and that the euro, introduced in 2002, has a foil feature perceptible to touch.

The dissenter in Tuesday's circuit ruling was Judge A. Raymond Randolph, who said the majority had too quickly accepted the plaintiffs' assertions and rejected the government's evidence that retooling or replacing the approximately seven million food-and-beverage vending machines in the country could cost $3.5 billion if bills of different size were introduced.

Other parties who would be affected would be manufacturers of money-dispensing automatic teller machines and, for that matter, manufacturers of wallets and purses, Judge Randolph said.

But Mr. Lovitky said changing the size and shape of American paper currency would help millions of people who are either legally blind or have seriously impaired vision as they age. Many of these people are on fixed incomes. For them, "a currency mistake — intentional or otherwise — has real consequences, Mr. Lovitky said.

"And their numbers are increasing," he said.
Pillar of the Community
KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"How do other countries handle this? Make paper bills different sizes? Raise printing? Use coins?"

20 years ago, when I was in Europe different currency denoms already used Braille-style coding and different sized bills.
And I have here a 2004 Canada $20 that has Braille-like dots too. What is exactly the big problem here?
Edited by KurtS
05/21/2008 12:31 pm
Valued Member
jeffreyice1's Avatar
United States
381 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffreyice1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only problem is when your blind and you give a twenty for your purchase (Which you know is a 20) They cant count the change (Dollar wise) They rely on trusting the cashier to do the right thing!
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  05:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How do other countries handle this? Make paper bills different sizes? Raise printing? Use coins?

Yep, all of these techniques are used, and more, and have been used for years by most countries.

And blind people need not feel that the money is being changed just for them. For many of the features, they're not just an aid for the blind, but have other advantages as well. Different sizes, for instance, help when trying to spot a single "wrong note" in a bundle - it literally sticks out like a sore thumb.

With Australia's current polymer notes, all the notes are the same width (thus addressing vending machine concerns), but each denomination is 7mm longer than the previous one. The clear plastic window (which feels different to the rest of the note) is a different shape for each denomination, and on higher denominations an additional pattern is stamped onto the window. And, of course, each denomination is in a bright, distinctive colour.

"Going polymer" would be too radical a step for the USA, but the paper equivalent of the clear plastic window, which some countries use, is a piece of reflective/refractive material bonded to the paper, which not only feels different but doubles up as an anti-counterfeiting device.

Most other countries made these kinds of changes to their paper monies years ago, seeing them as sensible and commonsense ways to make their paper money more secure and user-friendly. They didn't need to be taken to court by lobby groups to initiate the changes.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  08:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
National Federation of the Blind Denounces Ruling on Accessible Paper Money Lawsuit

National Federation of the Blind President, Dr. Marc Maurer, said: "Today's ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit is profoundly misguided and may unintentionally do real harm to blind Americans. Hundreds of thousands of blind people use paper money every day without difficulty. We hope that this ruling will not have the unintended consequence of reinforcing society's misconception that blind people are unable to function in the world as it currently is. Identifying items by touch (including currency) is convenient, but not essential to blind people being able to participate fully in society. For a court to say that if we cannot identify it by touch, we can't use it is a fiction and a dangerous one. Millions of items that cannot be identified by touch must be managed by the blind in business, industry, and education every day. We are successfully managing all of these endeavors, and the court's ruling challenges our ability to do so without any supporting evidence.

http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Default.asp
Valued Member
gawd0wns's Avatar
Canada
464 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gawd0wns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Source: http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/bankn...ibility.html

In Canada, bills have accessibility features:

"The tactile feature is located in the upper right corner on the face of Canadian Journey series notes. It consists of a series of symbols formed by groupings of six raised dots separated by a smooth surface. Each symbol is composed of two columns of three raised dots. These dots are embossed and back-coated to enhance their durability. These symbols are not Braille: they are a system developed in consultation with blind and visually impaired Canadians after research indicated that not all potential users read Braille."

Bills are also printed with large, high contrast numbers which are easy to see. The Bank of Canada also provides a bank note reader which can help blind/visually impaired people determine which notes they are using/receiving.

*edited*
I agree with the above ruling. Put yourself in a blind person's shoes. Get someone to give you a random stack of bills and try guessing what they are with your eyes closed. Better yet, go to a store and try paying for items. How many people do you think will take advantage of this, by lying about what you have given them, or shortchanging you?

I do not think it is a matter of being treated differently, I think it is a matter of providing everyone in a society an equal amount of information. And yes, this will sometimes require you to deliver information differently to different people (I.E. printing multi-lingual signs, pamphlets, etc). If you do not, you could be excluding certain groups, or preventing them from participating in certain activities afforded to all citizens in a society.
Edited by gawd0wns
05/21/2008 10:36 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I happen to own two business that are in the Mobility Products industry. In one, we modify homes and vehicles to facility functionality for those who are challenged. In the other, we sell and service rehab wheelchairs and powerchairs for the same purpose. Over the years, and through contact with many wonderful clients, I have learned much on this issue. This paper money example is only one of many that individuals who are challenged by limitations must face each day. Everything from no curb cut-outs, no power door openers on all commercial buildings, no handicap parking, round door knob, switches too high on the wall, no elevators in buildings with multiple floors, public bathrooms with no wheelchair friendly stalls are some examples and I could go on and on and on. Most all of my customers realize that the cost to rectify these situations is prohibitive. All they ask is that we try to understand and address these issues when we can and it is reasonable to do so.

Some of these situations are more an inconvenience than a true problem, but many are absolute barriers in a person's life. We need to recognize the difference and address the real problems. To my way of thinking, the money issue brought up here is one of them and needs to be remedied.

Jim
Pillar of the Community
KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hundreds of thousands of blind people use paper money every day without difficulty. We hope that this ruling will not have the unintended consequence of reinforcing society's misconception that blind people are unable to function in the world as it currently is.
Would the sightless be somehow disabled further or marginalized by such a useful currency change? As a sighted person, the changes we discussed would be useful to me too--which I don't regard as a way to put down the vision-impaired.
Edited by KurtS
05/21/2008 1:20 pm
Pillar of the Community
hunter20ga's Avatar
United States
1173 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If feasible and economically responsible, I see no reason that bills not be treated in some fashion as to help the visually impaired use the currency and ensure that they are paying correctly and receiving appropriate change for their purchases.

And...it might make counterfeiting just that much more difficult!
Pillar of the Community
jeremymh's Avatar
United States
543 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2008  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeremymh to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was suprised by the ruling!
I figured all judicial officials are ignorant like the politics.
Edited by jeremymh
05/21/2008 5:27 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,864Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums