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Another Case Why Ebay Needs To Bring Back Negative Feedback For Buyers...

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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2018  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. My Terms and Conditions are above and beyond ebay's, and they are legal and binding, as stated in said terms. I've only had to invoke the late fees twice before, and in both cases, the buyer gave me no issues in paying them.


Buyers can pay them if they want but your terms are not legally binding. No ebay sale is legally binding. Your terms are in contradiction to ebay policy and you would lose Everytime if a buyer decided to fight them or report you. It's no different than the sellers that say no returns, there's no such thing as a no returns sale on there
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7641 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2018  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your "lost item policy" in your "Terms and Conditions" made me laugh.

You really think a buyer will eat the loss? You really think a buyer will PAY YOU $10 a day if they file a claim?

The only reason you're still on ebay is because no one has pressed the issue. If push comes to shove ebay will chew you up and throw you to the dogs.
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silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2018  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My Terms and Conditions are above and beyond ebay's, and they are legal and binding, as stated in said terms. I've only had to invoke the late fees twice before, and in both cases, the buyer gave me no issues in paying them.
I can guarantee that it only happened because you scared the buyer.. ebay would never enforce your terms, if push came to shove,, they are just scare tactics, same as stating No returns.. you have to accept them if the buyer insists..
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silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2018  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Your "lost item policy" in your "Terms and Conditions" made me laugh.

You really think a buyer will eat the loss? You really think a buyer will PAY YOU $10 a day if they file a claim?

The only reason you're still on ebay is because no one has pressed the issue. If push comes to shove ebay will chew you up and throw you to the dogs.


ditto..
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silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2018  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and just to make this clear , this wan't meant to be a pick on John thing, but we are checking your auctions, and your terms, and they are not legally binding, period..
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John77's Avatar
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2018  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to whichever mod(s) edited the very demeaning remark directed at me out of the one post. I've never smoked in my life, be that tobacco or otherwise.

Perhaps if ebay treated sellers more fairly, I wouldn't have to go to such extraordinary means to protect myself.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2018  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Perhaps if ebay treated sellers more fairly, I wouldn't have to go to such extraordinary means to protect myself.


More like draconian measures trying to scare buyers with threats of legal action for them following ebay's terms which by the way out-rule yours and that is in the terms you agreed to with ebay.
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oriole's Avatar
Canada
5255 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2018  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't do auctions either, but I do check the box on the listing page that requires immedient payment with BIN


I wish to mention that this works to the seller's disadvantage if the buyer is getting multiple small items via BIN.

That is because there is a paypal fee per transaction, in addition to the fee as a percentage of the transaction. In several cases the buyer requested me to wait for an invoice.

You do this by putting everything in a cart and request a new total from the buyer. This is how they apply the multiple items shipping discount.
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spru's Avatar
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2018  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read through your terms, John77, and I agree with the other comments that most are completely unenforceable on ebay.

I'm pretty sure most people don't read all of that anyway. I don't because I know what my options are on ebay and I know to be careful. I have a few suggestions:

Require immediate payment for BIN listings. As mentioned, buyers can add items to the cart and checkout/pay for any number of listings all at once.
Offer returns. I generally don't buy (especially coins) if returns are not offered. At least 14 days; 30 would be better and help your seller status. No returns for collectable coins makes it seem like you're hiding something.
If you expect a moderate possibility for returns, charge a Restocking fee. This is a legitimate ebay option. Remember, this is only for straight returns and not for "Item Not As Described" situations. For amiable returns (no case opened), the buyer pays return shipping and original shipping is not refunded (unless you just want to). Only the item purchase price is refunded.
Remove the "late fee", "lost item" and "legal action" clauses. ebay automatically opens an unpaid item case after four days. Send payment reminders.
As a collector, don't estimate grade in your title/description. Even with clarifying that it is your opinion, that may give someone ground to stand on if they decide to open a case against you.

I think you are probably hurting your sales with a lot of that and maybe those suggestions will help.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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John77's Avatar
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  12:13 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

More like draconian measures trying to scare buyers with threats of legal action for them following ebay's terms which by the way out-rule yours and that is in the terms you agreed to with ebay.


Well, if that's how you see it, great. Unfortunately, I had a very bad experience with one seller who basically tried to extort me. I didn't budge because he lied. I spoke to several people at ebay about what he was doing, and even after I was reassured by them that he wouldn't be able to leave me negative feedback, he was able to, and I was never able to get it removed - it dropped off my profile after a year. It was after that experience when I invoked my current terms and conditions. ebay doesn't protect sellers at all. I have to do it myself, unfortunately.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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John77's Avatar
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  12:47 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the constructive criticism, spruett001.

I would offer the immediate payment option on BIN listings, but a lot of my buyers make best offers to me, and we go back and forth on the prices until we agree on a figure. On my listings, I do offer combined discounts if they pay full price, so that's another reason why I don't use the immediate payment option as I do quite often have to send invoices with the promised discounts.

As for the returns policy, my sales have actually gone up since I instituted it. After the one really bad experience, I knew I had to change something. I talked to a few of my friends in the legal profession - also, one of my cousins is a lawyer. I honestly care a lot more about my reputation than my sales. If I lose a few sales because a buyer is "scared off" by my terms and conditions, then great! That's what it is there for. I'd rather not deal with that kind of buyer in the first place. My terms and conditions are there to make sure people who try to abuse the system won't be tempted to. The late fees and legal action clauses give me some protection against these kinds of buyers.

As for grading coins, I've been doing it for over 40 years. While grading is always somewhat subjective, they see the coin and either they agree or disagree with the grade, just like you or I do when we go to the LCS or Coin Show... and decide whether or not to purchase. In all of my time on ebay, I've had exactly two buyers dispute a grade in 800 or so transactions. In the one case, it was the lying buyer mentioned in my response to basebal21's comment above. It was a roll of 1971 Jefferson nickels. He called the coins "culls" when they all graded VG-AU as the description and pictures indicated. None of the coins had any problems. In the other case, it was a toned coin - the only instance I've sold a toned coin on ebay. I don't think I'll be selling another toned coin on there, because, quite honestly, they are not my field of expertise. Fortunately, he only dinged me with a neutral. If you check my feedback, you'll see that everyone else that has bought from me has been very happy with my coins and fast shipping.

Also, I've got a good little group of about ten people who buy from me almost every month - a good little clientele base. I'm enjoying it, and it works for me. It isn't broke, so I'm not going to "fix" it.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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spru's Avatar
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  01:30 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you check my feedback, you'll see that everyone else that has bought from me has been very happy with my coins and fast shipping.


I did look at your available recent feedback. One thing I noticed is that you have no feedback as a buyer (not recent anyway). I offered those suggestions with the perspective of both seller and buyer, as I sell frequently, but probably buy more. I've certainly encountered problems in both cases that needed to be addressed. That's why I started requiring immediate payment for BINs. I have had several of those that just wasted my time by "buying" and never paying or communicating. It's very frustrating, to be sure.


Quote:
I honestly care a lot more about my reputation than my sales.


As far as offering returns, it helps your reputation to offer 30-day returns. I recently was put on a "probationary period" as a Power Seller and that had to do with not uploading tracking (because of shipping single coins in an envelope) and not offering 30-day returns. So, this area does affect your ebay status/reputation, as I said before.


Quote:
I'm enjoying it, and it works for me. It isn't broke, so I'm not going to "fix" it.


It certainly doesn't seem broken. You sell quite a bit and have a lot of satisfied customers. Remember, though, your Terms may be effective on a personal level for buyers, but ebay would not honor them in a dispute.

That reminds me, I need to get some more coins listed!

P.S. I want neutral/negative feedback to be reinstated for buyers. Some are just stupid, but some are conniving.

In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
01/24/2018 01:36 am
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wish to mention that this works to the seller's disadvantage if the buyer is getting multiple small items via BIN.

That is because there is a paypal fee per transaction, in addition to the fee as a percentage of the transaction. In several cases the buyer requested me to wait for an invoice.

You do this by putting everything in a cart and request a new total from the buyer. This is how they apply the multiple items shipping discount.
Good advice. My only experience with ebay is with BIN. I have used the "Add to cart" button instead of "Buy It Now" to buy multiple items from one seller.
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John77's Avatar
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  11:25 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

That reminds me, I need to get some more coins listed!

P.S. I want neutral/negative feedback to be reinstated for buyers. Some are just stupid, but some are conniving.

Me too to both of these!

By the way, I haven't done much buying recently. I have done some unsuccessful bidding though. LOL. Last purchase was when I bought 10 rolls of 2009-P nickels (and got 15 free BU coins thrown in) from a seller in Puerto Rico many months ago and was very happy with the transactions. When you add in my CRH finds and some I got in a trade via a member of another forum, I own almost 500 2009-P nickels now.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Edited by John77
01/24/2018 1:39 pm
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Coconutjoe's Avatar
United States
1475 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, going back to negative feedback, ebay rating system is totally useless without it for both sellers and buyers.

It's the big corporate's scheme to give buyers false sense of security to generate more sales.
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