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 Replies: 9 / Views: 2,509 |
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New Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Hi all Firstly, Mods, if there is a more appropriate sub for this topic then, please, move it for me. Yesterday, a silver trader handed me the coin below and asked me to check it for him and sell it. The coin comes from the estate of a collector who had a number of rare Chinese coins, some of which have already gone to auction raising four figure sums apiece. This one just seemed too good to put into a general sale without further investigation. I've gone through the online images of this coin and it looks pretty good.... but there are a few flags. So, I thought I'd pop it up on here for those with a more experienced eye to examine. The coin tests as .900 silver; weighs 26.7g on my pocket scale; and measures 39.88 to 40.55 around on my verniers. Photos are below:     I welcome all views and comments. Thanks in advance to the site and the community. *** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Were it not for the provenance you describe, I think the tendency would be to dismiss this as yet another counterfeit so prevalent for the Chinese dollar genre.
This needs to be certified and then go to one of the major auction houses to maximize its value.
Looking t where your fingers are in the photos, it also needs to be rinsed with distilled water immediately.
Colligo ergo sum
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New Member
 United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Don't faint, but the dealer pulled this out of his pocket yesterday. It's since had a quick bath and been placed in a coin wallet.
I have an aversion to Chinese coins purely because of the number of fakes out there and wouldn't want to call this one either way. I think it may well have to go away for a correct assessment but before it does I wondered if anyone knew of similar mis-strikes that were faked or if anything on the coin itself stands out as obviously wrong.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
Coin almost just came out of the Mint, edge and surface shows no trace of circulation.
I would agree this needs 3rd party authentication, it would be worth a lot more than regular strike.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I have to raise my concern. These days counterfeiters are getting creative and come up with fancy error coins in their wares.
It needs to be sent off to a proper grading company. This is definitely out of my league.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The mis strikes of crown sized coins of any country are much scarcer than the small coins.
Nevertheless, I have to agree with gxseries.
If the provenance is independently provable, (and at this stage, I believe that it would be), I would be able to concede that the previous experienced owner would have a lot more expertise than I, with these coins.
Dimensions and weight OK, looks perfectly OK in the pictures.
Should go to a leading auctioneer of international reputation, such as Baldwin's, for confirmation of authenticity and sale.
Lucky Cuss has a valid point to make.
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New Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
To update on this coin:
it's been on its travels. Its been seen by three separate experts. Two called it correct. The last said no. Being that the last opinion is that of Spinks' own Chinese coin expert, I have to think that the coin is (in his words) a "modern concoction".
It's a shame but there it is.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Here we see a difference in opinion between experienced professionals.
Where does that leave the collector?
I am inclined to trust the specialist from Spinks. The other two experts have not been identified in this thread.
But I am biassed.
The coin that you see in my avatar came from Spinks London in 1982, and I still have all of the purchase documentation and Polaroid pictures to prove it.
The excellent on screen pictures seen here, by themselves, are still insufficient enough for me to declare 'fake' OR 'authentic'.
A point to be made:
Visual examination of on screen pictures is only one of many tools, that when taken together, are needed to present a fully considered opinion to declare if a coin is a fake or not.
I do have another concern here, with a speculative question:
What if this coin had been sent to a grading company with an excellent reputation, had it graded and slabbed, and by that inference, had declared it authentic?
There would have been far less inclination to subsequently break it out for further examination.
Edited by sel_69l
05/24/2018 11:53 pm
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New Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
@sel 691 - you raise very valid points.
I'll add one more question: where we have a coin like the example here and there is (for argument's sake) a 90% likelihood that the coin is genuine, I wouldn't blame an auction house like Spinks for refusing to call it correct or, indeed, to call it a "concoction". Where does that leave the collector?
Fortunately, I have nothing to lose in this one. It's going to be returned to the silver dealer with the advice I have garnered. After that, it's up to him what he wants to do with it.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
I'll venture a thought based on what is seen. This appears to be a "pressed" coin, meaning in a hydraulic press, not within a coin chamber of a coin press. My concern is, the reeding. A second pressing wouldn't effect the edge not being contained by a collar as a struck out of collar strike would. There would be an oblonging (more so) than exhibited. There also may exhibit a slight thickness differential at edge of second strike(microns). So I can easily see the fake side, but the details are very, very good. Disconcerting....
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Replies: 9 / Views: 2,509 |
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Posted 04/22/2018 11:24 am
