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XII Pence 1652 British Or Early American Token?

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New Member

Romania
10 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  02:30 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Virghil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Greetings all!

I bought this the other day in an online auction, I don't yet have a diameter or weight for it. I have already looked for it on coinarchives pro and Ha.com but have not managed to find anything similar enough. Any thoughts on what it might be?


XII-Pence-1652-British-Or-Early-American-Token?
XII-Pence-1652-British-Or-Early-American-Token?

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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ill definitely watch to see if someone does know, but it looks like an emergency issue of some type.

I would have bought that one myself.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinage marked "XII" (for pence, this being equivalent to a shilling) was issued in the mid-17th century in both Maryland and Massachusetts.

See:

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/42400/42...52_42432.htm

And:

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/42400/42...59_42431.htm

Yours seems rather more crude than either of the above, nor is it silver, but if authentic, I'd have to be leaning towards it being some sort of colonial.

Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
04/23/2018 11:23 am
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Pistareen's Avatar
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pistareen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This may be interesting. It looks like a coin weight. By listing COL (Colonial?), M (Massachusets?), and NE (New England?) it points to early American shillings. What does it weigh and how does that weight compare to published weights for the NE shilling and early large planchet Massachusetts shillings? If the weight matches then the next step is to identify who made coin weights like this? Coin weights were made to account for circulating coins and the date of 1665 may indicate this does not apply to small planchet Mass silver, made through the 1680s. But this is deep knowledge of coins not well know back in the day. If we allow that Massachusetts shillings could turn up in change for two hundred years post-1652, then this could be a 19th century object.
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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did find a mention in a publication, Numisma about a 1665 XII Pence https://books.google.com/books?id=-...coin&f=false

Which led me to check the Newman Numismatic Portal and The Colonial Newsletter No. 49 https://www.archive.org/stream/CNLn.../search/1665

The relevant portion of the above being
Quote:
The so-called 1665 XII Pence described by Taxay in Counterfeit, Mis-Struck and Unofficial U.S. Coins, pp. 145-147 and illustrated on page 146, has an inverted "M" on the obverse. It is a 19th century fabrication


Unfortunately, I do not own a copy of the Taxay book mentioned above so I cannot check to see if it is a matches up.

-MV
Edited by MeadowviewCollector
04/23/2018 6:08 pm
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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found a reference to this in the American Journal of Numismatics, published in 1881.

Quote from the book:

"A curious piece, XII Pence, 1665, rev. Col + M + NE. star or sun in centre, size and weight of a shilling, brought 11; this piece we consider to be of doubtful character, and probably of the same class as the "Novum Belgium," which was rediscovered recently, though probably not issued from the Betts mint."
New Member
Romania
10 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2018  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Virghil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all very much for your help!
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There appears to be an undertype of some sort visible.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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