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Denarius Judea Capta Authenticity

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New Member

United States
2 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2018  10:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bustlover327 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,
I was wondering if I could get some feedback on a recent coin purchase. I bought a silver denarius Vespasian with mourning woman and trophy on ebay. The coin in the photo that the seller does not match the coin I received, and since then there is a new listing for the same coin with the same picture. Seller informed me that the coin is "origional." I have posted some pictures below. Something just doesn't seem right. I mainly collect US coins, so I am new to ancients. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2018  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community

From what I can tell from your pictures it appears to be genuine, but your pictures aren't very good. If you can try and post better picture so we will be able to say for sure.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2018  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't like the die cutting style of Vespasian's face.
Checked several profiles of Vespasian in Vcoins, for visual comparison.

Profile reminds me to be a bit like that of Tiberius.
Google:
"'Vcoins ancient: 'Tiberius'" for yourself, to get an idea of what I seem to be reminded of.

The human brain is programmed to differentiate fine details of faces, so that we can easily recognize each other.

Pictures too much out of focus to check inside the radial flan cracks looking for tensile metal distress, that is diagnostic, much like the head of a well used cold chisel.
You may be able to check this for yourself with a high powered magnifying glass or loupe.

You need to check against the coin that was pictured, as offered.
Also need to confirm the reputation of the seller.

Since you have some suspicion, you also need an independently provable provenance for the coin itself.

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United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2018  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please provide the ebay item number or a link to the closed auction. That may tell as much as anything.
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2018  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is not the original coin you saw in the photos that is more than enough reason to have ebay freeze the funds and ask for a return. Unless the seller only sold one thing on ebay and nothing else ever you get your money back as they hold the paypal funds and paypal demands backup credit card to make sure they can hold funds for bad sales. As for the coin I have set the photos correct and took some of the saturation away below for comparison. As for me, Vespasian must have really lost some weight as you can do an acsearch and you can find a long neck a few times, or you might find a giant unibrow but you never find all this together with cavernous eyes. About 700 photos to see on acsearch. Could be the result of bad tooling but of course, this is not the coin you bid on. Get ebay to freeze the fund by starting a return. I would not want that coin at all. Plus the questions are enough reason for you to worry as your kids will have problems selling it someday. It has red flags with the look of the emperor. Start a return. You will get your money back.
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 07/09/2018  02:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reason I asked for the ebay link is that I took a quick look at recently sold Vespasian Judaea denarii on ebay. I found a seller in Bulgaria (reddest of 'red flags'!) who has sold the same suspiciously familiar Vespasian Judaea denarius (using the same photos) at least twice. The coin below and the op coin appear to be the products of the same parent mold with slightly different centering, edge cracks and "tone". Typical Bulgarian cast fakes in my opinion.
Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/17337043...47675.l10137
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VESPASIAN-...AOSwIIha2xvC
Edited by Kushanshah
07/09/2018 02:58 am
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2018  07:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the better pictures I agree not genuine.
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United States
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 Posted 07/09/2018  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bustlover327 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the link to the ebay sale/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vespasian-...p=true&rt=nc


Item number 153062173282

Thanks guys/ gals for all of your help!
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United States
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chrbaudry's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrbaudry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am the guy who unfortunately bought this coin on ebay for $115 The seller is still there and has good reputation !!

https://www.ebay.com/usr/mafazo?

He is selling his coins around $150!! The coin is pretty clean, like new !!



I tried to place a bad comment but this seller managed to prevent this from happening

CHRIS

Denarius-Judea-Capta-Authenticity
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chrbaudry's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrbaudry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For my information:

How are fakes produced? I suppose that there is a need to have an "original" and making a cast for just one fake coin must take time and be expensive?

Are these people in cahoots with museums?

Chris
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The seller is still there and has good reputation !!


Hard to reconcile this statement with the fact that he (mafazo) is on Warren Etsy's fake seller's list:
http://augustuscoins.com/ed/fakesellers.html#H
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jskirwin's Avatar
United States
616 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The guy needs to be submitted to Joe's NFSL at Forum. He's missing from there and clearly belongs by what he's selling.

chrbaudry
Sorry you had a bad experience with your first ancients purchase. We've all been there, which is why you need to know the coin or the seller. I got hooked on ancients after decades messing around with US coins. I remember thinking that holding a Morgan from the 1890s was amazing. Wait till you hold an actual Judaea Capta minted 1,950 years ago. I did a quick search and there's a Judea Capta type - without the mourning woman - for sale by a legit seller for $95. I paid over $300 for mine from a seller on Vcoins and now see one from a trusted seller for just over $100.
Edited by jskirwin
12/09/2018 10:29 pm
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chrbaudry's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrbaudry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To: Bob L

Yes! I do not know how it is possible - I tried to delay the payment and he harassed me on ebay

They say: mafazo (81) 100% positive feedback . - A mystery!

Thanks for the url, I will use it - I am not sorry about the experience - It is an occasion to learn!

Chris


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chrbaudry's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2018  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrbaudry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To jskirwin:

Thanks for the reference - I just saw it - In fact I already bought a similar one a few weeks ago and I am happy with it!

Thanks,

Chris
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2018  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not want to tar every Eastern European seller with the same brush, but as far as I have been able to learn,
it is illegal to sell genuine heritage coins from most Eastern European countries, but it is quite legal to sell copy or fake heritage coins.

This forces an intending buyer to automatically expect that such coins could be fake. Automatic red flag.
That is a pity for the honest seller.
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