1944 Wheatback- Trails Under The 44?

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Author	Replies: 12 / Views: 1,032
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 02:02 am What do you think these lines are coming off of the 44? Trails ? Image: 1944jpeg2.jpg 42.22 KB Image: 1944jpeg3.jpg 39.53 KB Image: 1944jpeg4.jpg 43.15 KB Image: 1944jpeg5.jpg 41.68 KB Image: 1944jpeg1upsidedown.jpg 40.65 KB Image: 1944upsidedownjpeg2.jpg 42.93 KB Report this Post to the Staff

amac44 Member United States 3242 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 08:53 am worn die with crack is what it looks like to me. Report this Post to the Staff
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 09:27 am Amac: These are raised piece's of metal, on the diagonal, with clear lines top and bottom coming directly off of the 4's and the height is almost as high as the number 4's. My pictures don't show up real close, but under 15X its there. Would a worn die make that? Report this Post to the Staff
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 09:29 am Correction on the height- approx 1/2 the height of the numbers. Report this Post to the Staff
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 09:47 am No doing to good this morning! NOT 1/2 the height of the 4 - its less than that- around 1/8th in height. Report this Post to the Staff
MorgansRmine Pillar of the Community United States 1219 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 10:00 am Chuck, just a little clearer picture would really help on this one. I see trails but I also see what looks like flow lines in the field around the date. Hard to tell. Report this Post to the Staff
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 10:34 am MorgansRMine: Thanks, I'll try and post better pics later today. Report this Post to the Staff
ziggy9 Valued Member United States 499 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 12:55 pm chuck this is one of those instances where a pic of the full obvers would help. if this is a worn or over polished die then there should be signs elsewher on the coin Richard Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 1:05 pm Hi, To me it looks like the expected flow lines of metal that we would see and the result of having been struck by a worn die. Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 5:39 pm Heavy die flow/die wear that extends toward the rim. The trails coins are found on the single squeeze Cents. What it is hasn't been determined yet, but happens on coins struck with the same dies. On the older copper Cents, that was way before the single squeeze process. Report this Post to the Staff
chuckster 125 Pillar of the Community United States 4113 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 6:40 pm Thanks for everyone's help on this! Coop, if I'm understanding you correctly, then any pre 1982 Lincoln Cent can NEVER have trails because they were made different? Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/02/2008 9:14 pm The 1982 zinc Cents forward doesn't signal the change. It was when the single squeeze method was introduced is when the trails and the wavy steps started. The earliest wavy step is in the 1986(?) area. The trails I'm not sure how far back yet. But the 2000 area is close. What ever causes them (Not called a doubled die) is still not determined yet. Some refer to them as doubled dies, others don't. Perhaps not knowing what for sure causes them is probably preventing the name for them, except just trails. Report this Post to the Staff
BJ Neff Pillar of the Community United States 526 Posts	Posted 07/03/2008 09:09 am Just to update Coop's information. The trails, including wavy steps, is occurring at the end of hubbing, when the die moves across the face of the hub. While the exact mechanics of why the die moves is not fully understood in depth yet (it is either due to thermal warping or a form of snap back), this area is the most likely where these anomalies are formed. Since they are produced differently, affect the design elements differently and are not a duplication of the design element, they are effectively not doubled dies. Some may argue this fact, however, there is no concrete evidence to support this theory. Trail dies may have been around longer than we suspect. A Proof Lincoln Cent from 1964 appears to have trails from the bottom of the letters in LIBERTY. There maybe some connection between making proof dies and the single squeeze hubbing that is different than the business strike hubbed die. Of course, more pre-single squeezed hubbed trail dies are needed to make any type of correlation between the two hubbing systems and why they react this way. BJ Neff Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 12 / Views: 1,032

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