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2014 Shenandoah P, Stuff On Both Sides

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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
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 Posted 10/15/2018  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those arc shaped areas are seen as a result of Die Deterioration.
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Kawliga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/15/2018  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like I said, I'm NOT disputing Die Deterioration. I'm asking specifically how it could cause this particular result. Like why arcs instead of straight lines?
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 10/16/2018  04:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if you read this link yet,it tells about all types of doubling http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...Doubling.htm
I am going to ask one of our top pros to comment,Mike Diamond.
John1
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 Posted 10/16/2018  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As John1 said, this is Die Deterioration, for the most part. On ATB Quarters, the incuse peripheral letters often show smearing, which can make them look closer to the rim. The smearing is often simply a side effect of the coin expanding during the strike, but it sometimes reflects slight die instability. In any case, it's nothing significant.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Kawliga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/18/2018  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't know if you read this link yet,it tells about all types of doubling http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/Doubling.htm
I am going to ask one of our top pros to comment,Mike Diamond.
John1


*** Edited by Staff to add Quote tags. [quote][/quote] Please use them in the future. ***

Bah, that's the main site I was looking at the other day when I said I can't see consistent differences between valuable and worthless doubling (in fact I can't see any doubling at all on a couple of the supposed valuable ones).
So does anyone want to take a crack at my question about WHY some doubling errors are valuable and others are worlthless? Like why is one kind of accident 'cooler' than another?
Edited by Kawliga
10/18/2018 12:55 am
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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 10/18/2018  05:04 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
WHY some doubling errors are valuable and others are worlthless? Like why is one kind of accident 'cooler' than another?


When the die is cut twice by a hub - rare and valuable
When the die is used improperly, worn excessively and over used - common and not valuable

Hub doubling is what you call an accident (bad die made by mistake), Die Deterioration is not an accident (good dies that are improperly used ). Both, however, are something that could be caught so that none ever leave the mint.

How do you tell the difference in a simple rule that you are apparently looking for? You can't. It takes experience and that takes time examining coins and understanding the minting process. The information you seek is out there but there isn't going to be a one sentence synopsis that allows you to determine what you have.

2014-Shenandoah-P,-Stuff-On-Both-Sides

Note: the 1955 "poor man's doubled die" (lower image) is actually Die Deterioration and not hub doubling.
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Kawliga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/18/2018  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that top ^ 1955 one looks great and there's no way anyone could miss it. But that website also includes ones that look no more impressive or clear than that bottom 1955 (the DDD one).

Like this:

2014-Shenandoah-P,-Stuff-On-Both-Sides

And this one is hilarious, the author says this 'P' is "a nice example of a quadruple punched mint mark." LOL! WHAT? I could stare all day at it, even with it this hugely magnified and I just barely see how it's doubled, never mind quadrupled, and I can't see how you could know this is repeat-punched, not deteriorated die. I feel like either the biggest idiot or the kid who could see the Emperor wore no clothes.

2014-Shenandoah-P,-Stuff-On-Both-Sides

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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 10/18/2018  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mint marks and dates are a completely different ball game (before they started putting them on the hub). A long time ago dates, and until more recently mint marks were added by hand.

I told you this is not a simple subject.
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Kawliga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/19/2018  03:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, you're not kidding. I've been wondering how one device/character could double but the one right next to it not. This stuff's crazy.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 10/20/2018  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A variety doubling on the devices and the mint marks, happen before the dies are put into use. Things that happen to dies in use, I refer to as die events. The difference? Die varieties are on all the coin struck with those dies. Die events happen during the aging of the die. It is actually a breaking down of a normal die. Stuff happens and alters the dies. They fix them up as best as they can. Thus I call them die events.
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Kawliga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/21/2018  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kawliga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much!
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