Need Help To Complete ID On Medieval Athens "crusader" Denier Tournois

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Author	Replies: 4 / Views: 1,267
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7953 Posts	Posted 11/04/2018 4:27 pm So, you know those stories of how people re-connect with old flames on Facebook after 40 years? For me that happens with my coins thanks to CCF While looking for a French coin in my collection, I ran across a battered feudal era denier tournois that I am pretty sure I plucked out of a $1/coin bin (maybe less?) from the Gimbels Stamp and Coin department in Paramus, NJ around 45 years ago. (My brother and I were always deposited there for a few hours while my parents did their Christmas shopping). It's still in its original 2x2 holder with a "France denier" attribution. I decided to try to finally get a more precise attribution, but the incomplete legends did not make sense for a royal French denier. Instead, it appears to be a crusader era coin from the Duchy of Athens. I think I can make out this in the obv legend: + G(?) DVX (?)NES And this in the rev: Th(?) CIVIS Numista has this, which looks close to me (though the obverse photo there needs to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise). Grateful if anyone familiar with this area (I am certainly not) can confirm, or do better. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/at...duchy-1.html Edited by tdziemia 11/04/2018 4:31 pm Report this Post to the Staff

Kamnaskires Pillar of the Community United States 7066 Posts	Posted 11/04/2018 4:38 pm Quote: I think I can make out this in the obv legend: + G(?) DVX (?)NES And this in the rev: Th(?) CIVIS Would this be G DVX ATENES/THEBE CIVIS? Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7953 Posts	Posted 11/04/2018 4:45 pm Thanks, Bob. I think there are 2 letters after the G obverse, but that area has been clipped (or was missing some metal to begin with). According to the Numista listing, could be GVI for Guy de la Roche. And yes, the rest of the gaps could fit what you've suggested (though more letters than just THEBE couls also fit on the rev.). Edited by tdziemia 11/04/2018 4:46 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Spence Moderator United States 34423 Posts	Posted 11/10/2018 1:50 pm @tdz, sorry for a late reply, but I just noticed this thread today. I agree that this coin comes from Guy II de la Roache (1294-1308 AD). For the obv, I think that the inscription is most likely +GVI DVX ATENES and the rev inscription is +ThEBANI CIVIS. Your Denier Tournois has rosettes between words and therefore can be attributed as Malloy 93. If you have a lot of crusader coins, then you may be interested in this earlier CCF thread: http://goccf.com/t/285873 "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7953 Posts	Posted 11/11/2018 2:08 pm Thanks for the followup. Bob had confirmed my general hunch, and it's nice to get that specific attribution you've provided (I noticed there were at least two types looking at auction sales). It's the only crusader coin I have and I didn;t even know I had one till this month! Now I just need to figure out whether to unload it, or hold on for sentimental reasons. I have a few coins that don't really fit my collection any more, but which are related to long ago travels, and hence remain for nostalgic reasons: a Louis XIV copper I bought at a street market in Paris on my first trip to Europe, a medieval SPanish from my one and only trip to the Sunday stamp & coin market in the Plaza Mayor, etc. Edited by tdziemia 11/11/2018 2:13 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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Need Help To Complete ID On Medieval Athens "Crusader" Denier Tournois