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 Replies: 94 / Views: 11,324 |
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New Member
 United States
33 Posts |
Quote:
I think he was trying to find out why NGC called it scratched. In hindsight though, I would've taken the 14k and ran with it. Especially since all the keys are details coins. LOL, that's exactly what I came to these forums to ask in the first place! And everyone unanimously told me that by no means should I sell it to the guy for the $14,000, and that I could get scammed and such, and so forth and so on, and that they thought that what we had was worth much more than that. I was told that getting them graded and selling on a certified coin auction was the only way to go. And that nobody would pay for raw coins, and so forth and so on. Just scroll back in this thread.. like I said, I think when the high resolution pictures are posted by GC, people will see that the cleaning is probably a subjective opinion, because they honestly do not look "cleaned", aside from the 1877 where even in this thread, it was about 50-50 on opinions., and if it were "cleaned", it was decades ago, or even a century or more ago. I honestly think that lots of dealers and other folks would regrade that there was no cleaning, and possibly not even any noticeable scratch that should even be noted on the 1909 S. After going through a couple hundred of other listings, it seems like in NGC resorts to a Details grade much more readily than other TPG, for the smallest thing they find with their microscopes and laser scanners or what have you.. but of course that is subjective on my part. Hopefully folks will go by the hi res pictures they take of them and judge for themselves rather than just blindly accept what NGC says as the final say. There is so much of a range within what one might call "cleaned". |
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
Quote:
In your first image of the reverse, it looks like a line/scratch there It supposedly is on the obverse.. not sure if they mean the tiny vertical hairline behind the nose, or that little white spot behind the chin, going towards the neck? That's just going by the picture I posted here, I still have to look at my others to see if it's any clearer. Whatever it is, it's virtually unnoticeable, to me anyway. |
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Valued Member
Canada
314 Posts |
What everyone was saying rings true, to an extent. Myself and most of the members here would probably not pay near top dollar for a RAW set, that's just the fact of the matter. So having them graded technically isn't bad advice.
On the other hand, I still think you could get around 2 grand for the '77 because, as has been said, it stands well on its own, even with the old cleaning.
But yes, some people will pay a lot for ungraded coins, even if they look like they may be Details. That's how Great Southern Coin and others rip people off.
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
Ian is currently going through them this weekend to estimate value and I assume they will be sent for photography and listed soon. He also convinced my dad, as well as all of you did, to allow them to be listed separately instead of as a complete set. Even though it was probably one of the best complete sets ever assembled, according to everyone who saw it.. hopefully this will realize a better overall return. 2K for the 1877 wouldn't be too bad at all. I've seen other go for more that didn't look near as good, as far as detail and condition, so I'm sure people would see that its more than worth it just from the images, which will be much better than mine, and everyone will know they are authentic and undoctored and such coming from GC, which should increase confidence as well. Lots of scammy stuff around in both directions, which could have stuck us if we accepted that Etsy offer. No way of really knowing. Edited by JJS2
02/24/2019 3:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1479 Posts |
I believe your coins are in very good hands and allowing Ian at GC to handle the matter was absouloutly a good move, no a very prudent smart move (considering info. you provided). My score with GC is 200+ certified coins 100% go rate with one return ( I changed my mind). Thousands of dollars and over 100 transactions with GC and never, not even one mistake. This is only my opionion. It is also my opionion Forum members information giving to you saved you a virtual peanut gallery of tragic comedy's selling through Etsy or the Bay. All the work is done, relax and watch the auction most bidding is done day of or last 2 hours so don't worry. GC pays in 2-3 weeks and the checks cash real good. Nothing more to report from north central KS...luvmycam signing out. |
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
Hi again, New Update.. Well, the entire Indian Head set is now up on Great Collections, so those are probably the best photos of each coin that is possible, since they professionally imaged each one, both sides. I have to say that the controversy on NGC's "details/cleaning" grades has intensified greatly. To recap: the local dealer who examined the set and put his own unofficial grades on them all, (he has been an expert coin dealer and collector for decades), is at odds with NGC over a lot of their claims of "cleaning" on a lot of the coins. He was going to give us $8K for the set, factoring a 20% markup, and sell for over 10K. According to so many here, the set was supposedly worth up to double that. Then, we got the $14K offer from someone on Etsy. But everyone on these forums unanimously told us that we should send to Great Collections. OK, all seemed great, and NGC came back with grades on most of them, HIGHER than the local dealer estimated! (We did think he was undergrading them). So even better, right? Until Ian gave us an estimated final sale of.. less than 5K? Wha? Not kidding. How can this be, if the grades were higher than the dealer who was valuing them at 10K plus, and was ready to give us 8K cash on the spot? Apparently it's all because of the supposed "cleaning" and other weird details that NGC slapped on them. However.. each coin is now professionally imaged in high res, and I guess our only hope is that people LOOK at the images and not just take NGC's word for it. Everyone who looked at the pictures I posted before estimated a total value for the set at or over 14K.. Everyone can now see each coin perfectly imaged by GC.. what does everyone think? Do all of these seemed "cleaned" to you? The lowest offer we had before was 8K from the local dealer who graded them lower than NGC ultimately did.. so how did we get to an estimated 5K, when even a professional dealer knows he can sell for over 10K? (And now for even more, since, as I've said, the grades turned out to be better than his!). If this plays out, lots of people sure are going to get deals, and make tons of money off our set, but it won't be us. It's almost like they just slapped cleaned on them automatically when some are clearly not. They messed up on two overdates also, not even noting the overdates, and Ian had to send them back to get "fixed", which we are still waiting for.. Wow. But what can we do now? Just hope people actually look at the images and go by their own judgements, I guess? As for the links to the listings, I'm not sure how to post the group, as they are all listed individually.. but they are listings numbers 692159 through 692217. The 1877 is here: https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...C-AU-DetailsThe 1909-S is here: (They claim a scratch.. I don't remember that ever being mentioned by the dealer who examined them, nor do I notice in the images?) https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...-Unc-DetailsI think you can get to them all by just changing the number in the link below : https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/692159And incrementing up to 692217. What do you guys think going by the new photos? Same opinions? Worse? Better? All input will be greatly appreciated.. Thanks.. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5685 Posts |
I finally see the scratch on the 1909-S, a short vertical scratch just below the date. It's probably not very noticeable in hand, and it's too bad they detailed that coin. The photos look good, and the ones that were lightly cleaned still are very attractive. The details designations will definitely hurt, but hopefully the key dates will still sell strong. Good luck!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
I don't see a scratch on the 1909-S so if I was interested in that coin I'd give good money for it. 1877 looks cleaned in the new photos too, but in a different, more blotchy way. Not a fan of the coin and fully agree with the NGC details designation for it. I can understand your disappointment in the wide range of tentative appraisal values and offers, but please refrain from making such big generalizations like Quote:
Everyone who looked at the pictures I posted before estimated a total value for the set at or over 14K. Sometimes people here have lesser opinions about coins posted but do not post them because the owner could get defensive and argumentative about the value of the coins, and most people don't want to get into that sort of thing. |
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
I know what you mean, however I was the opposite! Several collectors thought the local dealer undergraded them, but I was shocked when people in the forums started telling us it was worth 2 to 3 times what we previously thought..
That's what led us down this 4 month path, and ultimately sending them to GC as was recommended here. The 1877 looks great in person, we got lots of other collectors' attention on that coin alone.. I don't notice any blotchiness.. (and definitely not in person), but I suppose it depends on what device in the image is viewed with? However the opinions on "an old cleaning" seemed to outweigh the unsures, so the designation on that one wasn't a huge shock.
Edited by JJS2
04/06/2019 8:44 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
314 Posts |
Seems clear to me that the reason the value is much less than you were expecting is because the key-date/big-money coins are all or mostly details coins. Again, I would've tried to sell the set as is to maximize financial gain, however, many would look at that as a dishonest practice, especially if many of the coins had a good chance at Details grade.
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
Well the unanimous advice from everyone on this forum was to not sell as is, and to send to some place like Great Collections, and that would maximize any profits.
It was already mentioned that the 1877 looked like a possible old cleaning, not sure on the 1909-S but we were still getting offers 14K plus. I don't see how the math adds up, really, as far as the estimate Ian gave. The key dates seem to be appraised as expected for the most part, it must be the rest. Some are not worth arguing the cleaning, but several are. For the rest, someone else suggested that sending the ones with legitamate "details" to conservation could have probably doubled or tripled value. But we just didn't have the time or up front funds, but hopefully someone else who might have the time will see that, and it will all still go for a decent amount.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
789 Posts |
I'd suggest you wait until the sale is over and then decide if you did the "right" thing.
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
I suppose we don't really have a choice now.. it's still more secure to sell on GC over Etsy or ebay, regardless. Also, Ian sent us a few thousand cash advance, which helped get my father out of having several debts being turned over to collection agencies, and what not. So that was another advantage. I just can't believe this all has actually dragged on for 4 months..wow. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Selling through GC is probably a smart move, but you're going to get stomped on the detailed keys, I fear.
Edited by Coinfrog
04/06/2019 9:02 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
314 Posts |
Problem is you can get the '77 in XF for less than 2K, so collectors are going to be hard pressed to pay more than that for a details coin only one grade up.
But like someone else said...wait until the auction is over. Maybe they'll bring more than expected.
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Posted 02/23/2019 3:54 pm
