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Carthaginian Bronzes - Fake Or Real?

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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  4:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Someone claiming to be in the UK, but apparently shipping from France, has been selling a lot of Carthaginian coins recently. I put in a bid to get a small handful of mid-tier coins and was surprised to win the lot; these coins range from 21mm down to 15mm.

The two larger of the lot seem to have a casting seam and have a similar patina to many of the others he is selling. The other two look more authentic to me, but one rotten apple spoils the lot. What do you guys think?.

Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?
Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?

And to show the collecting world isn't all suspected fakes, I also just won this nice Postumus:
Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34423 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bummer.

Would you mind posting a pic or two of the edge showing the parting line? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO they are fine, though the head of the horse on the upper right does look a bit odd. The Postumus is a super coin.
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Ben's Avatar
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 Posted 12/15/2018  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just bought them, thought I'd get opinions while I wait for them to arrive. If you squint at the pictures, you might see what I'm talking about - here are the other 2 pictures from the seller:

If you look at the top of the coin in the bottom left, I reckon that is the seam:
Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?

Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?

And here are a couple with more obvious 'seams' in the other listings from the seller:

Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?
Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's normal for this type.
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Ben's Avatar
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4208 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good to hear - did they just cast the blanks, or were some of their bronzes cast like early bronzes from the Roman Republic?
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2018  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, if you do a search on Carthage coin images you will see cast lines and spurs.
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 Posted 12/15/2018  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most ancient flans were cast. If they were cast in two-piece molds, seams may remain on the finished coins. The same is true for sprues if the molds were fed with channels. Even the leading experts sometimes confuse cast flans with cast coins.

Edited by Kushanshah
12/15/2018 6:14 pm
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 Posted 12/16/2018  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

They look OK to me.

This one of mine has a seam and a sprue.

Carthaginian-Bronzes---Fake-Or-Real?
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Ben's Avatar
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 Posted 12/16/2018  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. I have no real experience with Carthaginian issues, so it's good to learn some new things.

Of interest is the 3 ears of grain coin; this was apparently issued by the rebels during the Libyan revolt that rocked Carthage after the First Punic War.
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antwerpen2306's Avatar
Belgium
1194 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2018  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
no problem with this Carthaginian bronzes , I had the same doubts in the beginning , but there are all good IMO .It is a lovely Postumus . albert
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