1978 LMC Experimental

This is the correct weight for a 1978 LMC. It is probably plated.

I am not aware of a bronze clad steel planchet from the late 70's so I don't know what the weight would be. My guess looking at the weight of steel compared to zinc is the steel plachet would be .4g heavier.

Also, experimental cents in 1974 made of aluminum were minted. Of the more than 1.5 million pieces made, all were destroyed with the exception of one piece that resides in the National Collection at the Smithsonian.

In any case, there were no experiments that I am aware of that took place in 1978 with respect to cent composition.

Thanks,
Bill

Hi All,

This is all the info pertaining to 1974 experimental cents that had been disputed in these posts. This indicates the dates and mintages of the experimental pieces. It's a little long but worth the read from the educational standpoint:-)

Based upon a transcript of a Congressional hearing, occurring on July 19, 2006

before the HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES
SUBCOMMITTEE ON DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL MONETARY POLICY,
TRADE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HEARING July 19, 2006, entitled:
Coin and Currency Issues Facing Congress: Can We Still Afford Money




In Testimony given by Beth Deisher, editor, CoinWorld

seen at:
http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cach...k&cd=6&gl=us



I found the following.

Both the bronze-clad steel cents and the aluminum cents struck experimentally were both dated 1974.

None were dated 1973 although, some were struck in 1973.

In the transcript is the following: From beth Deisher's testimony:

"Permit me to explain why such an inventory is important. Back in 1994, when an
experimental 1974 Lincoln Cent struck on a bronze-clad steel planchet surfaced, Coin
World contacted U.S. Mint officials, in part to help verify whether the item could be
genuine. Bear in mind, a 1973 Treasury publication stated that such a coin was never
produced, yet our source claimed that it was produced and that a quarter million or more
of them were destroyed by Mint officials more than 20 years earlier, but that a few pieces
escaped destruction. It took Mint officials more than two months to state that the
previously unknown experimental pieces had indeed been produced. With that revelation
also came the news that the U.S. Mint had retained two of the experimental 1974 Lincoln
cents struck on bronze-clad steel planchets in its specimen files. (See Exhibits D 1 and D
2). This was historical information and historic artifacts that well could have been lost to
numismatic history had not an example surfaced in the collector arena."




Further in the testimony,

"The story behind the Mint's striking of the 1974 Lincoln aluminum cent is well documented. In the early 1970s,
copper prices steadily rose on the international market. By the summer of 1973, the value of the copper content
in the cent and the coin's manufacturing costs nearly exceeded the denomination's face value. As a result, the
Mint began looking for alternative metals.

After testing seven different alloys of aluminum and other compositions, including bronze-clad steel, Mint
officials in December 1973 requested Congress approve legislation that would give the secretary of the Treasury
authority to adopt an aluminum alloy for the cent.

The proposed legislation was referred to the House Banking and Currency Committee and the Senate Banking,
Housing and Urban Affairs Committee. Meanwhile, the Mint had already begun striking the 1974-dated
aluminum coins, using regular production Lincoln Cent dies.

Mint records indicate that 1,571,167 of the aluminum cents were struck over the course of two production runs.
In order to show congressional leaders what the coins would look and feel like, 14 of the trial pieces were given
to the committee members and their staff members - nine to House committee members and staff, and five to
Senate committee members and staff. Other pieces were also distributed to Mint and Treasury officials.
With the fall of copper prices in 1974 and opposition from members of the vending machine industry, who
contended the aluminum cents would not work in vending machines, the proposal never got out of committee.
Mint officials, lacking any authority to change the cent's composition, decided to melt the million and a half
pieces that had been struck.

In preparation for the destruction of the coins, Mint officials asked congressional members and staff to return the
pieces that had been distributed. Some of the distributed pieces were returned to the Mint, but not all. Several
pieces were claimed as lost. One staff member gave the piece in his possession to the National Numismatic
Collection at the Museum of American History at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C., where it remains."

Long post, but the mint records indicate that both experimental pieces were dated 1974 and that 1,571,167 aluminum alloy cents were struck. Futher toward the beggining of the record and qouted by me was a statement in the record of "a quarter million or more" of the bronze-clad steel cents dated 1974 were destroyed.


12 to 14 of the aluminum pieces are thought to be extant, two are known, One is in the Smithsonian and one is an example that surfaced and was graded by ICG and PCGS. It is known as the "Toven Specimen" . Officer Albert Toven's family has refused to comment on the coin since his death, so I don't know what the current status of the coin is. This coin was found by officer Toven in the basement of the Rayburn building, he had said that when he reported the find to a congressional representative he was told to keep the coin...so he did.

Thanks,
Bill

I read in an article once that at least one or two of the bronze clad steel specimens also still exist, some magazine's editor(i think it was Coin World) supposedly had one shown to him by a worker at the foundry that destroyed them. I also have read that in addition to the philly specimens, a few specimens were struck in denver. Also a few aluminum specimens were apparently struck in 1975. I'm pretty sure the 1975 and d mint mark coins were destroyed though, since only a handful of each were made.
I found some information about this here.
http://www.coinfacts.com/small_cent...974_cent.htm
http://www.coinfacts.com/small_cent...74d_cent.htm
http://www.coinfacts.com/small_cent...975_cent.htm

Very nice, and very interesting. Much of this I had never heard to date. From all accounts that were reputable accounts, no more than 250,000 had been struck. Now that number chnages in my mind...BUT...it states 1.5 million were struck, 250,000 were destroyed. So where are the remainder?

I knew about the 1973 copper/steel cents but was unclear as to the method of manufacturing the planchets...so it was clad, not plated. Another interesting tidbit I hadn't known. That would make them VERY close to the size, weight, and composition of the 2 Pfennig coin from West Germany from 1950 through the end of their manufacture. I found one of these once in Germany with a metal detector. The two brass sides of the coin were still there, but the steel sandwiched in the middle was completely rusted away. I would expect the same result of US cents made of a steel clad or alloy. This appears to be what our cents are moving toward, which will end up making nice BU specimens something to hold on to. Reason being, a LOT of cents end up on the ground and in other environmentally exposed places - if they are made of steel, they'll rust to nothing inside a decade. Within 30 years we will see the effect of this (horrible, in my opinion) decision...older cents (those made of steel and more than ten years old) will be virtually non-existant.

So this leads us to a different topic...have there ever been coins minted of steel regularly in any foreign country? If so, what is the survival rate of these coins? Do they rust like 1943 cents? Do they last, and if so, what has been done to make them last? Has the US Mint paid attention to this and acted upon it?

Howdy,

1,571,167 million aluminum cents. All destroyed but for 12-14 (estimate). 2 are known. One, the Toven piece the other in the Smithsonian collection.

250,000 or thereabouts on the copper/steel cents. A few (a miniscule) unknown number) escaped destruction and there are two that were kept by the Mint. They are in the Mint's "specimen file" as it is called.

Maybe that was confusing due to the length of the post but the info is in the post.

Thanks,
Bill

And so my question after a very detailed comprehensive list like that - how many of these steel coins exhibit the same problems as the 1943 cents? Do the Canadian steel cents last? Do any of the more recently minted steel world coins rust and corrode easily? I know very little about metals, but what I do know about steel is that it rusts. Are they planning to do anything at the US Mint to keep the coins they are talking about minting from rusting into dirt?