1858 Indian Head Cent - Fake Or Real?

It's possible, but that's one I'd want slabbed.

Again, if there are only "2-3 known" in existance, how come it's not worth substantially more?

The 1943 Copper (bronze) Lincoln: According to wikipedia.org

An estimated 40 examples are believed to have been struck, with 12 confirmed to exist. ...An example was first sold in 1958 for $40,000; one "mint" condition specimen sold for over $200,000 in 2004.

Breen, in his 1988 book, says about 40 are known from Philadelphia, about 6 from San Francisco, and about 24 from Denver.

A 1943 Copper EF-40, obverse and reverse stains and corrosion sold at Heritage Numismatic Auctions, Inc.'s 1999 ANA Signature Sale, August 11-13, 1999, Lot 5171, sold for $32,200.00, "XF-40".

So we see these 1943 Coppers going for a minimum of tens of thousands of dollars. Even taking into account the substantial popularity of Lincoln Cents over other coins, you would think that if there were only "2-3 known" in existance of the 1858 Indian Head cent, an example like this one on ebay would be worth tens of thousands of dollars. No?

Could be this one ?


For sale @ $3750.00 but this one is in much better shape.

I'd say its real, but could have been restored cleaned ect.

I'm certainly no expert, but doesn't the 8 at the end of the date look strange? Of the four digits in the date, why is it the one that is "fuzzy"?

Dont know but found this statment.

In 1858 mint director James Ross Snowden directed engraver James Barton Longacre to prepare cent designs which would replace the Flying Eagles as of January 1, 1959. The result was some 60-100 (12) piece sets of pattern cents. According to Rick Snow in his book The Flying Eagle and Indian cent Attribution guide, 2nd Edition c2001, the original 12 piece sets were all proof coins and comprised three obverses; the flying eagle with small letters, the small (skinny) eagle, and the Indian head with broad (rounded) bust point, which were combined with four different reverses; the oak wreath, oak wreath with ornamental shield, cereal (agricultural) wreath, and the five leaf laurel wreath. It is noted that Snow categorizes 49 different variations on the original 12 piece set which include narrow or pointed Indian busts, high leaf reverses, six laurel leaf reverses, undated specimens, broad planchets, and different metals of copper, nickel, and bronze. These additional coins all being of very low mintage.


AND FROM ANOTHER LOCATION:

Given the volume and variety of these patterns, 1858 may well have witnessed the striking of more different U.S. cents than any other year. And many, if not all, reached the public, or at least the collecting public since the Mint put them up for sale in sets of 12 different kinds.


FORGOT THIS STATMENT (DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS BUT FOUND IT)

The existence of multiple die varieties among certain pattern coins-and the Indian Head cents of 1858 are another example-would seem to indicate that such pieces were a "stock in trade" for Mint officials for a long time. Not noted on Mint record books, such pieces were probably made for private profit, an early day equivalent of Lesney "lunch box specials," or other delicacies made for collectors at off-times. Walter Breen, acting on a suggestion by Richard Snow, devised the term "Midnight Minters" to describe coiners who worked in secret.

Ok. I'll ask the question.

If only a few are known (or thought) to exist and there are a bunch of variations, how in the world can any TPG "authenticate" it? I guess someone has to, but .....

From what I've read in this thread so far, the most one could hope for would be a percentage of certainty?