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1893 Indian Head Cent

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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  5:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
How would you grade this IHC?

1893-Indian-Head-Cent

1893-Indian-Head-Cent
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you post a larger, straight-on pic of the obverse, please?
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry. All the seller's pics are at a slight angle. Here's another shot but I'm not sure it'll tell you much more.
1893-Indian-Head-Cent
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Btw, at ,least on my tablet, I can enlarge the pics by dragging two fingers on the screen, and they remain pretty clear. I can try to post better pics once I have the coin in hand, but my photo setup isn't awesome either. I did buy it--I'm a sucker for toned IHC's.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At this point, I lean toward AU-55 and possibly cleaned and re-colored.
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This seller has 100% positive ratings after more than 500 sales. If you confirm after I get better pics here, you can bet I'll be putting a ring in those ratings. The coin looked pretty good to me. Would you tell me what I'm missing?
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with coinfrog , nailed it to a tee , AU-55 .
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, what did I miss? I obviously need the education.
Edited by twslisa
05/27/2019 9:13 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see almost certain wear on the ribbon and an unnatural coloring. I would not buy this without much better pics.
Edited by Coinfrog
05/27/2019 9:11 pm
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2019  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What would you expect in terms of coloring, Coinfrog? I've been reading quite a bit about toned Morgans, and one of the primary markers they talk about is the color progression, and the fact that the toning will vary based on elevation of the coin's elements. Both seemed sound here. There is very little online about toning for IHC's, and I haven't seen anything in print. Help a sister coin lover out!
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hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2019  12:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
twslisa, although a collector of toned U.S. coins for over 20 years, my experience and comfort is in silver coinage. Copper I am far from comfortable with, and there is a wide range of opinions on this very type of toning from people whom I respect.
I remember about 10 years or so ago when there was a rash of blue toned Indians getting graded by PCGS. The consensus at the time was that the coins were being dipped in MS70, which is what was imparting the blue toning. Rick Snow, who has forgotten more than I will ever hope to know, believes that the MS70 is only allowing the color that is already present on the coins to come through. To this day, it is a highly debated topic. FWIW, I have gravitated towards what Rick feels.
To learn more about this, I suggest going across the street to the collectors universe site and doing a search. There is a ton of information available, including posts from Rick.
As for the grade of the coin in question, I'm seeing enough signs of wear to call it an AU-58.
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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2019  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you confirm after I get better pics here, you can bet I'll be putting a ring in those ratings.


Also consider writing the seller and share what you learned. Indicate that you are open to different ways to resolve the seller's (understandable?) error.

Then see how the seller responds. If they're defensive, try to blame you, send a terse unhelpful response, etc., then give 'em a low rating!

On the other hand, if they respond thanking you for enlightening them and they offer to pay the return postage (or similar), then you both win. :O)

All the best,

Mark

P.S. I love that you ask great questions and that you are persistent.
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twslisa's Avatar
United States
790 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2019  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twslisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Will do, guys. I look forward to seeing the coin in person. I've bought a few coins that weren't as good as I initially thought; if I liked the coin anyway, I have usually written it off as an inexpensive education. This seller called it BU/UNC--I'm not sure what range of grades would fall under that description. I had assumed that it would mean the coin would be MS 60, at least, since AU basically acknowledges that the coin is in circulated condition. If anyone hcan provide clarity on that, I'd appreciate it. Anyway, if you guys are all seeing wear that I missed, clearly my eyes need more education on grading from photos. Not sure whether a bad rating is deserved, since the seller also recommended in the description that the viewer look closely at the photos and judge for themselves. I'll try to post better photos once I get the coin.

I've been seeing graded, toned Indian cents quite a lot; recently picked up a couple at the Denver Coin Expo. If it really is something that has been done artificially that's a shame.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8517 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2019  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU details...cleaned and recolored.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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