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Valued Member
United States
460 Posts |
I buy mint state coins for my type set, if affordable. In reading PCGS coinfacts as part of my pre-purchase research, it seems that PCGS says the most common mint state grade for most non-gold, pre-Morgan 19th Century coins is MS64. NGC seems to agree. I find most most MS64s to be very nice, and if MS64 is the standard, I wonder if my MS63s are substandard.
I have my doubts. I have read many times on this forum that population reports are bunk, and I can see a great deal of incentive to crack out and resubmit an MS64 in hopes of gaining a MS65 grade that could result in the same coin being counted as a 64 on multiple occasions. The same situation may exist with 58s. Just today, I saw a coin that jumped ten times in value between MS64 and MS65.
The situation is much different between 63 and 64 where there is nowhere near the price difference in most cases. So there would seemingly be fewer resubmissions and less double counting of 63s.
So I'd like to ask what you folks are seeing out there in the real world. Don't worry about Bust coinage. I can't afford it in mint state, and it was produced in more primative circumstances. I value personal eye appeal and strike over grade (sometimes I even choose a non-cac over a cac). So, theoretically it shouldn't matter whether 64s are more common than 63s, but I would feel more fully informed after soliciting your thoughts.
Thanks for your input.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4588 Posts |
NGC and PCGS see only the subset of coins people send in to be graded. Based on that, the average grade of an ASE is MS69.4 or so... -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
In reading PCGS coinfacts as part of my pre-purchase research, it seems that PCGS says the most common mint state grade for most non-gold, pre-Morgan 19th Century coins is MS64. I am not doubting that you read that but I have not. Can you show me where this is stated by PCGS? Thanks! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I never believe what is shown on those slabs. I simply buy a coin if I like it, crack it out and put it in an Album.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
In reading PCGS coinfacts as part of my pre-purchase research, it seems that PCGS says the most common mint state grade for most non-gold, pre-Morgan 19th Century coins is MS64. Thinking about it this actually would be logical. If it's how you wrote it it's saying that for non-gold old coins the most common grade between 60-70 is 64. That would make perfect sense it would basically have to be 63 or 64. Pre morgans a lot if not most of those coins wouldn't have graded 65 or higher the day they were minted so we can throw 65-70 out. We can throw 60 out as well as that is rarely used especially on silver coins. 61 is another unusual grade for silver so that's out. 62 are usually pretty beat up for silver so that's out as well not to mention the coins that were saved were likely to be the nicer ones. That just leaves 63/64 and I bet the pop reports will support those two being the most common grades for 60-70 and it probably will be by a wide margin |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Based on that, the average grade of an ASE is MS69.4 or so... 69 very likely is the most common ASE grade. |
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
BH1964: There isn't a quote. That's just my impression from reading several pop reports. Sorry I was confusing.
Basebal: as usual you are correct. 63 and 64 seem to get the lion's share, with the 64s being somewhat ahead of the 63s most of the time.
Edited by Sharkman
06/08/2019 6:51 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
BH1964: There isn't a quote. That's just my impression from reading several pop reports. Thanks. I kind of figured that. I would not surmise sweeping generalities and apply it to your collecting from this data. The data itself is suspect and subject to interpretation plus, even if it was 100% accurate, basing collecting decisions on this information would not be wise IMO. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Finding a MS-64 coin in the pre-1800 date range would be very high grade and warrant 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars. A 1941-D Washington quarter isn't terribly remarkable at an MS-67 grade. Grade averages is only applicable to a given date/mint mark for a given series. Trying to determine an average grade for an entire series isn't even recommended unless it is a short or modern series. PCGS and NGC provide a wealth of knowledge. Heritage has the most in depth analysis for any coin they have sold. A coins value is determined both by a numeric assignment and eye appeal. Eye appeal is very nearly as important as grade. |
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
It depends on the series, but I find Morgan dollars in MS-63 to be ugly and baggy and back in the day, those would be called BU. MS-64's are a lot nicer. MS-64 small gold is also a lot nicer than MS-63. 2 1/2 Indians in MS-64 glow. The MS-63's are just meh. Some series are not like that. Mercury dimes are not much different between 63 and 64, IMO. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
789 Posts |
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A coins value is determined both by a numeric assignment and eye appeal. Eye appeal is very nearly as important as grade. And therein lies my problem with TPG. It should be the other way around. Now, this is just my opinion, No need to tell me I'm wrong. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
789 Posts |
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...Pre morgans a lot if not most of those coins wouldn't have graded 65 or higher the day they were minted... Why not? |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Eye appeal is very nearly as important as grade. Eye appeal is part of a grade, but you are correct that eye appeal always has and likely always will be king. The stunners sell quicker and for more money than the dogs and that has basically always been the case Edited by basebal21
06/10/2019 8:38 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Why not? The majority of business strike coins minted today still wouldn't grade 65/66 or higher if you just blindly sent in bags of them from the mint for the most part. Now think about the technology of 150 years ago, then especially for the pre 1835 coins. |
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Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
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Now, this is just my opinion, No need to tell me I'm wrong. I would not do that, as I agree about eye appeal. For example, I bought an MS-64 Ike that looks way better in hand than ten other MS-65 versions of the same date-mint I was contemplating. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,548 |
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Posted 06/08/2019 4:38 pm
