Question About ICG Graded 1889 MS-67 Morgan

That $21,500 Price is for a MS-67 in a PCGS slab. They chance of getting that coin to do a straight cross into a PCGS slab at that grade is pretty much zero. Chances of it crossing at a lower grade would be MUCH greater. And there is always the chance that it could get a details grade. It is impossible to ever guarantee that a coin graded by one service would get the same grade at a different one. Heck you can't even guarantee getting the same grade on a coin if you crack it out and send it back to the SAME grading service.

I agree. In any event, we would need much better pics to evaluate this specimen.

Appreciate your responses. The coin is for sale for $4000, which is nearly $18000 lower than MS67 PCGS price and about $3400 higher than MS66 PCGS price. Seems like a trap and the odds stacked against me for it being able to grade MS67 PCGS or NGC. Only way I would buy it is with a 100% money back guarantee that it grades MS67 with PCGS. Though nobody is going to do that. Thanks again, I'm going to pass on it. Too good to be true.

Lower tier TPGs are good for cheaper coins. Once you get to more expensive coins such as really four figures and up (unless the entire value is their bullion such as many double eagles) there is a reason why the coin is in a lower tier TPG holder and not a PCGS one or at the very least an NGC one. This is especially true of 5 figure coins as the PCGS coin would bring a stronger price and sell faster as well.

Really I wouldn't touch a 20k coin unless it was PCGS and CAC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1889-MS67-...AOSwJrxdL5Km

Fortunately, nobody is bidding on this $200 coin.

Walk away from this one.

I will leave the ICG discussion to the others. As to the value, the $21,5K value is actually $24K from the last sale at auction in March this year by Heritage. The price would be lower as that person willing to pay that much now has his/her example and is most likely not looking to buy another one of the same date/grade the new high price or bid price would be the second highest non winning bid at the auction. Coins like this in ultra high quality can be a crapshoot as pricing due to several reasons. One being, is another one could surface or crossover into the same grade, thus lowering the value with more coins in the population, the other collectors playing at this level may purchase another one thus lowering the value again due to less collectors seeking an example. If held long enough and the coin is a Morgan and a very popular series to collect, it could also raise in value but that takes time usually over 10 years or longer.

On to the coin above in question, what would it crossover at, would it even crossover at all?, I grade it around MS65+ to MS66 from the photos, there is no way to tell luster or surface originality from the photos, so unless I had it in hand that is a moot point. Is it worth $20K+? Nope if it was it would already be in a PCGS holder sitting in a collection I'd bet, not being offered in a lower tiered TPG holder with an almost impossible grade assigned to it, selling for more than double the actual value (which it seems this coin is).

My advice is to buy coins you really like yourself, at this level you should probably also have an advisor that is a market maker in the series (meaning they regularly buy and sell coins at these price levels consistently) otherwise you could end up with a coin that has known hidden issues (yes even in slabs) or tainted for some other reason. This happens a lot more often with rare gold coins.

Do your homework using PCGS Coinfacts and NCG Coin Explorer pages, know the other coins that have slabbed at this grade, and higher, through auction catalogs and archives, dealer insider information, pricing history, sales histories, etc. How often do they come up for sale? (you advisor should know this answer), are there other coins that grade the same but, with out great eye appeal or with better eye appeal? How common is the coin in general grade not withstanding, how is the strike of this one compared to others in the same grade range? Did the high end priced coins sell because of a bidding war at auction, or fabulous toning, were they bals white only? How are they the same or different from this coin?

Unless you just have money to throw away, know your subject, coins are not a get rich quick deal anymore (sometimes there are examples but they are rare), more people have probably lost money on coins than made money on them - when buying strictly as investments. The true collector that takes the time to really know his coin collection inside and out, knows the market, the coins, the good and bad about them, will usually do okay in the long term with a collection or select pieces.

My Two Cents...