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Dumb Question For The Experts.

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Keith Cooner's Avatar
United States
52 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  4:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Keith Cooner to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have never had a reason to clean a coin, but I was wondering what is so bad about cleaning one? Why do people frown on a cleaned coin?
Thanks guys.
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DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am no expert, still I'd say that:
- cleaning in most instances leaves hairlines, or small scratches on the coin's surface.
- cleaning leaves some coins dull (aluminum) or unnaturally shiny (silver). It doesn't appeal to me.
For me, it's enough to disqualify a cleaned coin from my collection. Sometimes uncleaned ones are hard to come by, then I choose the one that's possibly least (or long ago) cleaned.
Edited by DL20K
09/26/2008 4:57 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188052 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It often artificially alters the original surface of the coin (moving, removing, or damaging the metal). Some "cleaning" that only removes the dirt and organic grime (like soaking in acetone or distilled water) is often acceptable. Personal preference is a factor of acceptance.
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To add to jbuck's comments which were right on, If it happens to be coins in grades of XF40 and above, it tends to destroy the microscopic luster flow lines found on coins with mint luster evident or still remaining. Like jbuck stated, it tends to make an artificial surface which generally throughout the coin collecting community, makes it less desirable and less valuable. It becomes a "problem" coin at that point.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6383 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One very significant reason not to clean coins has to do with third-party grading service policies. The major grading services will either refuse to grade a cleaned coin (PCGS and NGC) or will give it a "details" grade and state on the label that it has been cleaned (ANACS and ICG policy). "Cleaning" in this context would mean that the grader found evidence of damage from the cleaning process: hairline scratches, abnormal toning patterns, unnatural luster, cleaning compound residue, etc.

For lower-priced coins it may not be a big deal, but if an expensive coin would be rejected for grading at PCGS or NGC I for one won't usually consider a purchase. Like Vermontensium says, these are "problem" coins. They will always be harder to sell and won't be worth as much as original examples.
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1sikevo's Avatar
United States
1130 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1sikevo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaning has not been taboo until recently. A nice clean shiny coin was preffered over grimy, dirty coins... And if they were not cleaned physically, a lot of coins were dipped to make them appear new. That is why a lot of coins, even those in top-tier TPG holders, have been cleaned or dipped at some point. The difference is the ones that get slabbed retained their eye appeal and have no major damage on the surface from this cleaning.
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Keith Cooner's Avatar
United States
52 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith Cooner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys. I appreciate the help.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16812 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Cleaning has not been taboo until recently. A nice clean shiny coin was preffered over grimy, dirty coins...

And that's part of the reason why cleaning is so frowned upon today - because we can now see what damage such "treatment" has done to the coin.

The main problem with cleaning is, if you do a shoddy job, or later change your mind and decide it looked better before it was cleaned, it's too late - a coin can't be de-cleaned. Any attempt at doing so (for example, by artificial toning, or keeping the coin in your pocket for a few months) will simply do even more damage.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
303 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2008  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hc8604 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shiny coins can hurt your eyes too. :P
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2008  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ever watch the Antique Road Show on TV? They almost always stress if you had not cleaned this item it would have been worth XXXXX. There are extenuating reasons for not cleaning items of any kind. The primary reason is some of the STUFF found on coins or other older items if from an actual chemical reation from outside materials onto the original material. With coins it appears as Toning, Tarnishing,
Corroding, etc. On a coin that has been exposed to such substances, some of the original coins material has chemically combined with other substances. For example a Copper coin that has been exposed to Sulfates and/or Sulfites, a greenish substance appears on the coins. This is a Cupric Sulfate and the removal will take away some of the Copper of the original coin. Almost all coins will eventually combine with Oxygen if allowed and this too will form a new substance on the coins and then too, cleaning it off will remove some of the coin.
With Antique Funrniture for example people just have to make it look like new so they sand it down and recoate it with modern varnishes and/or other substances. However, in the sanding process, they have removed some of the originallity of the item.
Many coins that have been found in dirt are just that, dirty. Some very mild and non coin damaging substances, such as Distilled Water of Acetone could possibly remove some or all of the dirt. And without damaging the coins.
Still any cleaning is risky and even dangerous if using chemicals that could explode, start a fire or blind or kill someone. And remember that such an explosion could damage the coins.
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