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1947 Nickel With Re-Punched 7 Not Just Once, But Three Times?

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2019  9:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So I got home from the bank earlier today and got a few rolls of nickels and in a roll with other older nickels (1935's/1937's) I found this 1947 nickel, so I decided to take a look at it under my microscope and it looks like the last digit in the date was punched not once, but three times if it is even possible, I searched the forum and seen people asking about double dates on 1947 nickels they had but none of them looked like this at all, you can see distinct notches (i counted 3) all raised off of the coin.

Let me know what you guys think this is.



1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

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Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
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Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2019  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Boy, are you in luck. I saw your mention, and immediately recognized it. I discovered one about three months ago, took pictures, and was going to post it, but never got around to it.. Anyway, here are several pictures of mine, with one upside down showing the three images on the bottom as well. Let me know what you think.
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2019  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yontan thats awesome! I do see some MD on mine and yours but the notches are all in the same spots too, the bottom of the 7 is a dead give away for being doubled in my opinion. Question is are these actually a Doubled Die Reverse or something that is common on this year.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2019  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice photos guys!!

Often the last number of the date was blank on a master matrix, and was also blank on the master punch, before being added to a master die and then the working punches (which made the working dies). The notching would suggest multiple whacks were given when sinking the last digit of the date.

Nice find, good sharp eyes!!

As an example, here is a photo I took last year of a nickel dollar master matrix, and master punch, without the last digit of the date.

Master matrix
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?

Master punch
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2019  12:03 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The question is:

If this only occurs on some of the coins, and the working dies were chrome plated, then were the newly made working dies "touched up" by hand punching prior to chrome plating?

I do know that for 1947, the Maple Leaf was added to each working die by a hand punch made by Thomas Shingles, probably prior to chrome plating and die polishing.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 12/17/2019  12:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mine has it.
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
The Cook SP66 has it.
See https://coins.ha.com/itm/canada/wor...bnail-071515
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
I'll point out that both mine and the Cook coin also seem to have micro-repunch in Canada in the upper tip of C, upper left of N, and another apparent under my scope that I can't remember.

Edit - perhaps obvious, the OP coin is not a Maple Leaf but the other three posted so far are. And the Cook MS66 coin has it too: https://coins.ha.com/itm/canada/wor...bnail-071515

Edited by kbbpll
12/17/2019 12:58 am
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2019  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So John, it looks like we noticed something very interesting, and learned about master dies, but it is not a double die. Still, fun. By the way, please check out my new discovery ( just above your entry) about the 1959 nickels with dot on the 9. Bill.
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Canada
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 Posted 12/17/2019  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP-Ottawa, thank you for that information it is very interesting! I never knew the last digit of the dates on master matrix were added later but it makes sense now that I visually see it, this might be a newbie question but I'm assuming the reason they would not add the last digit right away was because they were made before hand for future years?.

Also like kbbpll pointed out mine does not have the maple leaf but the others do, so my question is how many are out there without the maple leaf like mine, and why does mine look like it was punched 3 times and the others only look punched twice.

Here is another photo of the 7 further away so you can see the whole thing.

PS, yontan i'll check your post out right now.


1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?

Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2019  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So far, my opinion is "they all have it". Further examination might shed light on mint practices, or identify specific dies. I hate to speculate on it, but it seems like with a mintage of over 17 million between 47 and 47ML, and finding this on so many coins, implies they all originated with the same dated master die. I have gone to PCGS population report and downloaded TrueView images, 3 each of 1947, 1947 Dot, 1947 ML, 1947 SP, and 1947 ML SP. All 15 coins have at least a hint of it, most very distinct. Evidence of the third punch seems to vary, so I'm thinking they polished it off, or die state, or strike. Evidence of a split serif in the upper left of N in Canada also varies. I'd encourage someone else to go find images and see what you think.

One of the things I find interesting is a strong gash across the bottom of the 7 which at first glance can be written off as PMD, but it appears on all three versions of the 1947. Below are regular, Dot, and ML - they all have it, yet some coins don't. I'll let the experts decide what it means.
1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
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 Posted 12/17/2019  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome information kbbpll, I am going to look into this as well when I have a moment, during your search did you happen to notice if there were any difference in these notches in here? By the looks of the three 7's you posted it probably varies as well I'm assuming.


1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2019  03:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Within the photography limits of lighting and angle, I would say all 15 PCGS images, 3 each in the 5 categories cited above, exhibit at least some evidence of tripling inside the notch of the 7. Certainly the prominent "doubling" (the first layer down inside the notch) exists on all of them. 11 or 12 out of 15 show some evidence of the line across the bottom of the 7 imaged above, and on 8 out of 15 it's irrefutable, two of them with Maple Leafs. Which implies that the Maple Leaf was added to the same die that produced the regular and dot 1947's.

This is reminiscent of the 1947ML half dollars, where all straight 7 ML coins are 7/7/7 - a resurfaced die 5 from 1947 with the Maple Leaf added. A similar tripling is visible inside the notch of the 7. For the half dollars the refinished working die theory is understandable, because only 38,433 were minted. However, for the 1947ML nickels, 9.6 million were minted, so it's difficult to believe that it's just one resurfaced working die with ML punched into it.
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4233 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2019  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hardly anybody cares about this stuff, but this inspired me to poke around the 25 cent 1947 Maple Leaf coins. The 4 and 7 are repunched on the 25c too.

There are at least three different positions of the Maple Leaf punch: Low and close to 7, low and far from 7, high and far from 7. All the specimen coins seem to be high and far.

1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?

1946 25c are found with the same 4/4, so the botched 4 extends to multiple years from the same "194" master.

1947-Nickel-With-Re-Punched-7-Not-Just-Once,-But-Three-Times?
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