1977 Canada 1 Cent Struck On Brass Or Bronze?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 13 / Views: 3,467
toolmanz New Member Canada 3 Posts	Posted 01/15/2020 8:20 pm All, First time posting to this forum and I hope I picked the right one. I posted a similar post on another forum and got some good feedback. I have a 1977 1 cent that appears to be struck on a blank of brass or bronze. I think a genuine mint error. I suspect a leftover blank from the striking of another countries coins. This is what I know: Subject coin is golden in color No evidence of being dipped or otherwise altered in any way Obverse has a cloudy copper area in one area (oxidation...) face is golden in color 1977 Canada 1 cent is copper in color and struck in an alloy: 98% copper, 0.5% tin and 1.5% zinc RCM struck the 1 cent anniversary of independence (1966-1976) for the Barbados government in 1976 http://www.coinscan.com/for/foreign.html) The Barbados 1 cent coin was struck in bronze. The 2 coins - the 1976 Barbados 1 cent and the 1977 Canada 1 cent are approximately the same size in diameter. Both coin relief and raised elements (maple leaf etc.) are very rough and not smooth as found in the correct 1977 1 cent coin The strike seems to be relatively crisp and clean Specifications: The specifications are from official sources: Measure Subject Coin 1977 Canada 1 Cent(1) 1976 Barbados 1 Cent(2) Blank material -unknown -98% copper, 0.5% tin and 1.5% zinc -bronze Diameter: MM -19.15 -19.08 -18.861 Diameter: in. -0.754 -0.751 -0.715 thickness: mm -1.57 -1.5 -1.565 weight: grams -3.2 -3.1 -3.11 Notes: These measurements for the subject coin were taken using reasonably accurate tools. At best these measurements are approximate. (1) Statistics from https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-pr ... 977&years= (2) Statistics from https://currencies.fandom.com/wiki/Barb ... _cent_coin That is what I have ..... the alignment does not work in the post preview...hopefully you can extract the info. Table is 3 x 5 and data points separated by - The edge is smooth and the rim seems to be doubled? The only thing I can think of as a possible explanation is: Hypothesis: In late 1976 or early 1977 the RCM stopped producing the 1976 Barbados 1 cent coin and began striking 1977 1 cent coins. A blank from the 1976 Barbados 1 cent coin, in bronze, was struck with the RCM 1977 1 cent dies and distributed for circulation. I welcome your comments and alternative explanations or anything that might help identify the coin material.. I suspect I will have to submit this to a grading service to find out if it is legit. Pictures added. Thanks in advance Report this Post to the Staff

DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9864 Posts	Posted 01/15/2020 8:37 pm All 1977 Canadian cents are bronze. 98% copper, 0.5% tin and 1.5% zinc = bronze The Barbadian coin is almost certainly the same composition. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Edited by DBM 01/15/2020 8:44 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Smallcentguy Pillar of the Community Canada 1984 Posts	Posted 01/15/2020 8:55 pm I have not double checked the RCM info on foreign strikings. But the easy answer is to weigh it, test for magnetism and then do an XRF scan. Report this Post to the Staff
DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9864 Posts	Posted 01/15/2020 9:11 pm Have you looked at a Barbadian 1 cent coin of that era? It has the same colour as a regular Canadian cent. Not at all like your subject coin. If a Canadian cent were struck on a Barbados planchet you would not be able to see the difference. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Edited by DBM 01/15/2020 9:17 pm Report this Post to the Staff
johnnysprawl Pillar of the Community Canada 1620 Posts	Posted 01/15/2020 9:59 pm That's going to be really hard to tell, seeing as the diameters are almost identical and the weight difference is only 0.14 g... Report this Post to the Staff
DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9864 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 03:38 am I don't believe anyone could ever determine if a Canadian cent was struck on a Barbados planchet. The weight and diameter are within the tolerance for a Canadian planchet. No one knows the exact composition of the Barbados cent other than it is bronze. No grading company nor XRF test could prove your coin was struck on a Barbadian planchet. At best all that could be determined would be if your coin is an anomalous alloy not to Canadian specs. Personally I think your coin is painted, plated ,or otherwise coated.High points on the reverse and the obverse rim appear to be where the coating has worn through. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Report this Post to the Staff
SPP-Ottawa Moderator Canada 10458 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 08:46 am Quote: I don't believe anyone could ever determine if a Canadian cent was struck on a Barbados planchet. The weight and diameter are within the tolerance for a Canadian planchet. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US My eBay store Report this Post to the Staff
toolmanz New Member Canada 3 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 10:38 am All good comments. I should approach this with some skepticism. The only question I have is why is the surface so irregular and rough? Well maybe I'll take a flyer and get it graded and perhaps they will do an xrf test while they are at it. That way I'll know for sure - perhaps#128580; If it was dipped or coated.... why? Report this Post to the Staff
john100 Pillar of the Community Canada 5324 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 10:46 am Even at best it's a Barbado's planchet, the condition of coin worth maybe a 100 bucks if you can find a buyer, this coin looks messed with Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 188660 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 12:25 pm to the Community! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
oldmike Pillar of the Community Canada 891 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 1:21 pm There are lots of Canadian circulated coins that have a rough surface ,looks like a well circulated coin , getting it graded would be a waste of money IMHO Report this Post to the Staff
JohnWayne007 Pillar of the Community Canada 1186 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 2:42 pm I can honestly say after just recently going through about $100 worth of 1977's that this is normal, you should see the colours these pennies can turn into, if the gold colour is intriguing to you, you should see the colours I've found, I got ones that look pink, gold, brown, some with blue hues, some with blue and green hues, BU uncirculated you name it. I even have some that literally look dipped in gold but they all come back with same weight and same size. I agree with the rest, getting it graded is not worth it at all and given the condition it is in finding an interested buyer willing to pay more than $50 is unlikely. Considering even if this were a barbados planchet like previously said theres no tests that could confirm it which means it would be hard to prove to an interested person other than your word. Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024) Report this Post to the Staff
SPP-Ottawa Moderator Canada 10458 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 3:04 pm toolmanz - I collect Canadian 1-cent in off-metal strikes. And, I own an XRF in my lab at work. Trust me, the folks here on this forum have your best interest in mind, when they offer advice. Even if your coin was mint state, the composition of the Barbados and Canadian 1-cent coins are identical (bronze). The mint tolerances of size, weight and thickness for both countries are the same. You could not tell them apart (a win-win scenario for the Royal Canadian Mint production plant). If you submit it to CCCS (the only Canadian company that certifies errors) they won't be able to determine its composition for you. If you submit it to PCGS or NGC, as an error coin, it will cost you upwards of CAN$90 to do so. There are lots of reasons why circulated coins can turn golden brass or even funky colours - do a search on the coin forum for tons of examples. The only Canadian 1c struck on any Barbados coin I have, are these two: https://www.icollector.com/1979-One...et_i34366909 https://www.icollector.com/1980-One...et_i34366911 You can find Canadian dimes struck on Barbados 10c planchets, as they are Cu-Ni and not magnetic. http://goccf.com/t/294146 And then, this Canadian 5c was definitely struck on a Barbados 1c. http://goccf.com/t/76634&whichpage=13#1403888 "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US My eBay store Report this Post to the Staff
toolmanz New Member Canada 3 Posts	Posted 01/16/2020 9:01 pm All, Thanks for all the great information. I have decided to pass on getting this graded for the time being it doesn't sound like this is a true error. Thanks Tim Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 13 / Views: 3,467

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: Canadian Coins and Currency Forums Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.48 seconds to rattle this change.