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2012 5 Cents, Weirdest Error On A Modern Coin I Have Encountered

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 2,934Next Topic  
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Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2020  02:42 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently just finished going through 2 boxes of nickels from the bank and on my last two rolls they were full of 2000's and up, me liking the older years I really didn't think I would find a whole lot but kept looking anyway.

Well like most roll hunters I'm sure they have that same thought in the back of their head "i hope theres something good in this" and I was greeted with this very odd error, first time I've ran into a coin that actually made me say wow, what happened here.

I present to you, the Flat Top "G"

2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered

P.S. upon recent study and talk regarding doubled dies on the modern nickels, this one has the exact same characteristics as the 2013 I had found but this is minor compared to that.

visible doubling in the "II" of "ELIZABETH II" notching on the bottom and tops of the devices accompanied with extra thickness
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered

As well as visible doubling in the "H" (notches on bottoms of device) accompanied by extra thickness
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered


As you can see on the "G" there is No signs of damage or PMD, the top is completely flat and straight across (reminds me of the top of an "E" out of "REGINA") but I doubt that is possible, my best guess is it is some sort of die error, since it shows signs of a doubled die I think the reasoning is two in the same but I am really not sure. All I do know is I've never seen this before and the longer I look at it the more I start to wonder what other kinds of errors are like this out there.

If anyone has a logical explanation as to what made this happen I am all ears, this isn't just a case of "a perfect hit on the device" I am more than certain it left the mint in this exact state.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
Edited by JohnWayne007
03/07/2020 02:44 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2020  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here you can see what a normal "G" is suppose to look like on the 2012 5 cent nickel compared to the Flat top "G" on the right.

Also included full Obverse and Reverse photos.


2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2020  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe these photos will provide enough visuals for opinions, I understand to some this could look like Post Mint Damage so I figured some clearer photos and an explanation to what I think is going on might get the ball rolling.

From what I am seeing is yes, there is damage here, but this damage looks to me like it is damage to the Die that struck the coin, at the mint. If you look at the following photos, above the G you will see raised Die Scratches, you will also see that the top of the G is also the same height as the rest of the device, normally when a coin takes a hit and a device is "pushed" there would be some sort of indicator in the fields and the devices height in the area would be raised, which it is not.

I have found a few coins that had obvious damage to the devices which altered the look of it and almost always, shows a sign of post mint damage, but PMD does not create raised die scratches.

In the last photo you will also see a very faint shadow of where the rest of the G is suppose to be like it is missing that part of the G along with its metal all together.

So all in all, it is a Mint Made Error in my opinion but I am open to hear everyone else's thoughts.


2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2020  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you are seeing are two different things.

You are correct for the doubled die on the letters, I have found these myself.


Quote:
my best guess is it is some sort of die error


Now for the flat top G, I have not found or seen other coins with this error. So here is my though process;

Could it be a die fill? ... No, the issue is the flat edge in the inner circle of the G.

Could it be a punch damage? ... I do not think so. Although punch damages were observed on 2012 nickels, think of the special K and ribbon logo, at least one die would have been made with the damaged punch. Therefore, more coins having the flat top G would have been found. If many other coins having this feature are found in the future, then most likely its a punch damage.

Could it be a PMD? ... My gut feeling tells me yes. The PMD I am observing on the flat top G has similar characteristics as die shift damage. Here is a example of die shift error on a 1964 penny exhibiting some points you have described. I know it is not exactly the same but most likely some form of PMD.

2012-5-Cents,-Weirdest-Error-On-A-Modern-Coin-I-Have-Encountered
Edited by numidan
03/08/2020 12:11 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2020  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the reply numidan, the only thing that prevents me from being confident it is post mint damage on the top of the G is the die scratches and the lack of extra metal that should be formed on the top of the G if it were to have taken a hit and that were the case, and iti were post mint damage those die scratches would not be raised, they would be incused into the coin like a gouge but that is not the case at all.

The overall condition of this coin as you can see is good, no signs of actual damage, and the fields would show some sort of damage big or small if it took a hit that could flatten that device.

Take the 1881 H large cent for example, on some the O in victoria has a part of the device missing due to Die Damage, not Post Mint Damage, obviously taking into consideration that the 1881 H may have had a different minting process back than I think this coin is a result of the same thing, I normally like to find and document my finds in pairs to confirm for myself before posting but again, I find it extremely odd to have missing metal from the device all together along with die scratches.

I have a fairly good track record of finding my finds in pairs, so I feel there is a 60/40 chance I may stumble upon another.

For example take a small flat head screwdriver and smack one of the devices gently and guaranteed you will see all sorts of damage all over the device and fields of the coin, but if you do the same to the die you wont, but you will find die scratches and missing metal.

For experimental purposes, in a bit here I will deliberately and gently, deform a G device to show my explanation as to why post mint damage is not the cause.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
Edited by JohnWayne007
03/08/2020 1:10 pm
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 Posted 03/08/2020  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1881 that has the bottom past of the O missing is not die damage. The bottom of the "O" broke off the hub (think of a typewriter key partially broken), so all the working dies that that particular hub made will have the same broken O. You can tell from looking at the coins that later working dies struck that there is less and less of the broken part of the O showing as the hub was used to make more dies... until the broken part no longer shows and is a smooth gap.
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Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2020  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okiecoiner, thank you for pointing that out! That is exactly what I was referring to, I sometimes get the Hub and Die mixed up but I was talking about Hub damage, the hub (raised devices) makes the Die (incused devices) and the damage I am referring to was damage to the Raised G device on the Hub not on the die, honest mistake that I'm glad you pointed out.

Again I also agree if this is the case than there would be more like this but since I only have one example as of right now I am stuck between Hub Damage and possible PMD.

Its the lack of actual damage that has me confused, I have a Mint State circulated LMC that has a lowercase "y" instead of an uppercase "Y" in "LIBERTY" that with the naked eye looks like Hub Damage to the device But upon closer inspection has moved metal and you can see it took an obvious hit, but on this nickel you see no signs of an actual hit, but you do see die scratches and missing metal.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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 Posted 03/08/2020  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The damage to the hub that I mentioned was in reference to the 1881 large cent, not yours. I think that yours in PMD. If it was hub damage on yours, then there would be thousands of them out there. I'm really not an error person, just a shipboard mechanical engineer who has worked with lots of weird stuff.
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Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2020  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okiecoiner, totally understandable, I was just pointing out that you helped me realize I was referring to this nickel as a die error when I meant to refer to it as a hub error, I know you did not refer to this nickel as a result from a hub error and you were referencing the 1881H and not this coin.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

2023 Recent Publications:
Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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