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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 5 / Views: 1,094 |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
Hi Gang I was fumbling around as usual on the net and came across three examples of the very same coin. As I said in the title, I am not saying that one of them is a fake, but the number and obviousness of differences between the two are numerous. Same mint, value, metal, year, finish, etc. Here is the first...  and the second, this is an APMEX version, if it is not a stock photo, in any case I assume they test their coins...  and an ebay example...  I apologize for the difference in the color of the fields, but it makes little difference. You know how hard proofs are to photograph, but this is beyond obvious. I lost count on the differences. The character does not even seem to have the same facial expression. Maybe start with going around to the left and take note of the different hair patterns and the differences as to where they are on the coin. One obvious (to me anyways) difference is just under the "A" in the word FABLES as far as where and how the hair's relationship to the hair's curl, one curl seems to duck under the "A", in the other one, the hair's lock appears to be headed for between the "F" and the "A". This is just for starters. In the top photo, there is a small lock of hair between the two big curls of hair almost side by side at the end of his hair at the very bottom of his hair, in the other photo I cannot see this small lock between the two at all. There also appears to be differences in the writing on the coin at the top (the name) in both thickness and relief between the 1st and 2nd one pictures. To amp up the interest maybe a little, I had bought one of these and I am pretty sure I got the real one, if one is actually fake, because I went by several factory and dealer type ad images of the past, etc. and mine is a match for those, even tho even that is not a totally sure way. That does not mean I am not getting it tested tho, that's for sure. The next time I am in town actually... I live very cheap, in an old rv, not rich in the least, but I do sacrifice to get what I want in coins. To look at me and my place, you would think I just left a homeless shelter. No offense. I am willing to buy the coins I really want and make a few sacrifices, my vehicle and my live-in rv is over 20 years old, etc. The coins are not for me, but for my disabled son after I pass. (sniff sniff). I would be interested in your opinions... it should not take you long to tell these are almost like two totally different coins if one pays close attention to detail. For 9k, I certainly do.... If there is enough interest, I will tell you which one I got, and later how it tested... thanks guys... mike moderator... I hope I posted this is the right place. I really do try to avoid irritating the mods for good reason, this was the only place where I saw previous questionable coins and I am not saying there is a crime going on here, but my mind is certainly made up, it was not like I had to use a magnifying glass or anything, it is that obvious to me anyways... I suppose it could be explained that the top photo was the one that was to go into production, and the bottom one was the one that actually did. thanks again folks... mike Edited by 4504
04/26/2020 7:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7963 Posts |
It seems to me the top photo is not a photo of an actual coin, and the second is a stock photo.
If I were thinking of something of value to leave for someone when I pass, it would not be only coins/gold, but something more diversified. Just my two eurocents' worth
Edited by tdziemia
04/26/2020 7:50 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
379 Posts |
I agree tdziemia, but this is the last coin I intend on buying, and I wanted just one euro, it is the only one. Also I have taken other steps (a Trust for starters) for my son, and other sources. Believe me, I am not putting all of the few eggs I got into one big coin basket. Except for a few things, they are much more of an insurance than an investment. I have gained and I have lost over the years with coin and precious metals, like almost everyone else. However, your point is well taken and I thank you for that.
Interesting that you do not think the top one is of an actual coin. How would you classify it then if I may ask?
thanks again... mike
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Quote:
Interesting that you do not think the top one is of an actual coin. How would you classify it then if I may ask? It looks like some kind of drawing or mock-up of the coin. It has shading, etc. rather than relief. But I'm not involved at all with coins like this, so maybe there is some kind of technology out there to make a coin that looks like this, and I'm just a troglodyte for not recognizing it. And shame on me for jumping to assumptions, and good for you, for all your planning  Edited by tdziemia
04/26/2020 7:57 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Facial recognition is the first thing I look for, when comparing coins that are supposed to be the same.
From birth, our brains are hard wired to recognize faces, and how we pick out people in a crowd. Faces are very complex visually, and that makes it hard for the coin faker to reproduce.
I am in no way familiar with this coin design,
but having seen both of them, my assumption is that one of them is definitely fake, and as such, investigation of them both is essential.
At least, you have obvious visual differences to begin with. So how would you pick the fake?
First, I would check official pictures of this coin and compare. Second I would find where the coin was minted and send them a picture, and ask for an opinion. Along with the opinion, I would ask for exact specifications of the coin, and also ask if two genuine die designs were made.
Differences in weight are easy to detect.
However,
both could be of exactly the same weight diameter and thickness, and so assume that one would have a tungsten core. As such, XRF testing would not be of much value. Neither would density testing.
However, a comparative ping tone test would show up differences, and so would ultrasound testing.
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
Thanks guys, I suppose then that the first picture was some sort of the minter's "artist's rendition", the photograph (or drawing?) looks to be some sort of factory depiction, it is just too good to be otherwise. Or maybe, as also suggested, that there was to be several types of dies used... maybe 1 UC or UHR, and maybe one regular? It did not turn out that way I do not think, but my catalogs go up to only 2011. I think by looking at them both for some time that the first photograph is actually maybe a very, very good drawing / photo-looking image of what the coin was envisioned as looking like, and the other ones are the coins that were actually minted. My collection is almost excusively modern world coins, from 1 oz to about 5 oz with some exceptions of the scarcer bigger ones. The way I figure it, if things turn to poopoo, at least, if society has not broken down entirely, that the coins would bring somewhat close to what I paid for them... better than dropping 9k in a casino in one night and getting nothing for it except telling you kids maybe the local college or the technical school is the way to go, forget Harvard or the other high end schools, hahaha. What I cannot get myself to do is pay like thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for an old domestic penny, nickel or quarter because when the zombies are upon us it will matter little...not that I am ragging on others who do that, but it just makes little sense to me unless you got a sure thing lined up. The only exception I would make is that the VERY LAST coin on my bucket list would be the only domestic coin I want, a 1907 roman numerals, flat edge, high relief, MS grade, St. Gaudens gold $20 double eagle. but most of them look like cr*p, The 2009 re-strike interests me little, plus the ones that are labled as having a "PL" proof like finish just irritate me, just like one TPG will mark such a regular high relief 1907 as a "proof" when it is obviously not, they even passed up PL for those, what a load of nonsense, while the other TPG does not engage in such marketing chicanery and will not grade any such 1907 as a proof unless it is one of the 1907 ultra high proofs with the edge lettering. Yes I realize that here were a few made but they cost in the millions for a real one. In any case, thanks for your replies... and if any of you have such a high relief 1907, please pm me...mike Edited by 4504
04/27/2020 09:29 am
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Replies: 5 / Views: 1,094 |
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Posted 04/26/2020 7:48 pm
