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Opinions On 1944 Cent, Double Struck Brockage?

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2008  11:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Check out this little find. Is this a brockage that was first normally struck and then double struck with a coin stuck in the die?
Note that the reverse has a few slight extra features as well.

How would one evaluate something like this?

Thanks!


Opinions-On-1944-Cent,-Double-Struck-Brockage?

Opinions-On-1944-Cent,-Double-Struck-Brockage?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2008  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not an error. Your coin was squeezed between a cent and a textured surface. These are known as "squeeze jobs", "vise jobs", "hammer jobs", and "sandwich jobs".
Error coin writer and researcher.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2008  12:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

I completely agree with Mike. This is definitely a "squeeze job". So...It is just a damaged coin.

Thanks,
Bill
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 Posted 11/09/2008  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But, if that was the case, wouldn't the "IB" in Liberty be obliterated?

Also, the horizontal lines on the left side of the head, for the backwards "E", they appear to be struck behind the head, as they do not continue onto the profile.

Same thing with the ear, the left side of the backwards "N" is visible in the lower profile area above, but cuts off at the ear. Something squeezed onto the surface would hit the high points first.

Also same thing with "In god we trust"

How would that happen from a squeeze job?

Thanks.
Edited by Numismat
11/09/2008 2:28 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2008  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's the odd thing with this one, some features appear to be struck above and some beneath the original design.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2008  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lettering does not have to be obliterated during a "squeeze job". The pressure involved with a vice or hitting coins wit a hammer is not usually suffiecent enough to obliterate details.

Essentially, the details stay there and just get pressed down a little bit.

Take a few old pre 1982 cents and try it yourself. You will duplicate what you are seeing on this coin.

Some of us have seen these hundreds of times. They are easy to distinguish from "brockages".

Thanks,
Bill
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2008  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Letters wouldn't be obliterated, especially if the coin was already circulated. The grit around the letters stays, as does the color, which further proves this didn't happen at the mint...as if having reverse incuse lettering on the coin wasn't proof enough.

I agree with the squeeze job, but this one looks more like the bottom coin in a stacked hammer job on concrete. I doubt it was squeezed - it was hit.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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 Posted 11/10/2008  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did a failed experiment today. I placed two wheat cents together on a block of concrete. I wanted to duplicate this coin, which of course would be easy to do.

I did the "John Henry" with the mighty hammer. Both coins went into orbit:-)

I got the metal detector out and found one of the coins. I have yet to find the other one and that's the one that will have the impression in it and the rough side due to being pounded on the concrete.

The next time I metal detect the backyard, I'll find that darn thing and post some pictures:-)

Have Fun,
Bill
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TreasHunt's Avatar
United States
2540 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  06:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definite squeeze job, not that I doubt the experts.

Hey, Bill, I know you search rolls, I didn't know that you metal detected!
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 11/10/2008  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've given it a try too, with a hammer and with a small vice, some pretty interesting outcomes, but I still cannot figure out the "positive features" on top of the reverse surface (the few diagonal lines). When I did it on a rough surface like concrete it made incuse marks, but this coin has them above the surface, like a die fill.

I'll try a few more, but this one still puzzles me, even after taking in all your info.


Thanks guys!
Edited by Numismat
11/10/2008 1:12 pm
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TreasHunt's Avatar
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2540 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numismat
I don't see raised letters, at least from the reverse on the obverse.
Unless you are referring to the original obverse strike.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numismat,

Every attempt can produce different results. Most often the results are similar to your coin. When you play with this as an experiment:-) You need to be sure that you use two copper cents (not plated) and that the little stack of coins get hit dead center. Otherwise, you hear PPPING! Swish Swish!

Thats the hammer strike and then two of those Kung Fu sound effects when the two coins fly through the air at the speed of light:-) Oh...Wear Eye protection:-)

Bill
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not letters, but some diagonal lines below the normal "One cent", and below the leaf on the right are most noticeable.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Treas Hunt,

I metal detected for 25 years on Long Island and in PA. Just prior to moving to the west coast my detector stopped working. It would have cost more to fix it than to replace it.

I recently had a birthday and got a new one so I am at it again:-)

Have Fun,
Bill

PS: I am trying to teach my collie to sniff out coins so I don't even have to use the detector:-) I figure if a dog can sniff out weapons and drugs, my guy can find a simple coin:-)buried six inches down:-)

Edited by foundinrolls
11/10/2008 1:18 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2008  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the safety info Bill! =) Better make it a full face mask at that, those newer ones have a full metal jacket.
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