| Author |
 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,507 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
This piece looks to be early-19th-century Anglo-Canadian, with the typical Tiffin-style British allegorical figure of "Commerce Seated" backed on the flip side with the bees swarming around their hive, signifying "Industry" as on any number of British and Irish Conders and 1811-20 copper tokens.  My recent pickup does have a couple of interesting features, however: On all the Commerce tokens I've been able to find pictured in my Withers and Charlton books, she's ALWAYS seated on a "bale," as she is here, but -- with the single exception of the 1825 Salaberry 1/2d -- she's ALWAYS "seated left." Gotta wonder what it means that she's seated right on this one. Another intriguing difference is that, in my research, Commerce is only sometimes carrying balance scales in her outstretched hand. In most other instances that hand is holding an olive or laurel "sprig." Here, because of the wear at her right wrist, I can't quite make out what Commerce is cradling in that arm...a sword, maybe? A sceptre, or a quill? Her bagpipe? Generally we would see an overflowing cornucopia there, or in some cases a winged caduceus. I'm hoping any of our CCF members who have a better example of this jeton can shed some more light on what that arm is holding, and of course any and all information that would help date and attribute this piece will be greatly appreciated! For example, was it a gambling counter, like a poker chip, or perhaps some sort of private-issue commercial token? Is there a reference book out there for collectors? Thanks to all, and...wash your hands, everybody! Tom
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
|
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Can't help you on ID but agree, it does appear to be much like the Tiffin halfpenny art.
I think it is an awesome token though, very cool.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Try contacting Scott Douglas at South Wellington coin club, I sort of remember he did a presentation on a similar token before this covid thing.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
haven't seen it in any of my catalogs to do with Canadian tokens
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5585 Posts |
If you just google beehive, token, coin you get some that look similar, but not the same
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
Although similar looking to a Tiffin, the OP's piece looks to have much better workmanship than the typical Tiffins. I suspect this piece was produced much later.
The beehive reminds of Utah motifs. Could it be a late 19th century US piece? Need to search tokencatalog.com
Nothing under Utah. Maybe Pennsylvania?
Edited by 1960NYGiants
09/16/2020 10:31 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1058 Posts |
Thanks to all for your tips...still not much closer to an attribution, but I've started digging a little deeper into my library. So far I've ruled out Breton, Leroux, and Batty. Will check into Atkins, McLachlan, and Courteau's non-locals next. John 101, I took your advice and heard back this afternoon from Scott Douglas. He's never seen one, but will do some further digging (and maybe some asking around) on my behalf. He closed with: "No matter what it is a nice token for sure." I'm with you, 1960NYGiants, in the belief that it's a later issue than the "colonial tokens" we normally see in these forums. More refined die-cutting and strike, for starters. Not leaning toward a US source, though, as the GB tokens from 1784 to 1820 are rife with examples of both allegorical depictions (Commerce and Industry) looking almost exactly like the ones on this piece. If I were forced to take a guess, I'd put it in the same family -- or at least neighborhood -- as the Canadian Pacific, Keep Your Temper, and Playing Cards tokens. Is there a catalog out there that covers those, and perhaps related jetons? okiecoiner, I appreciate your looking, and I thought you might enjoy this shot I just took of my wife's favorite coffee mug...and no, I didn't buy it for her!  I'll stand by hopefully for input from some more of our fellow exonumismaniacs. Thanks again! Tom
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
I have a late 18th c English token with an almost identical beehive + bees image....the other side is completely different however... "Donaldson and Co. Stocking Manufacturers, Wholesale and Resale" with"Promissary Halfpenny - payable at NottinghM OR" around the edge [ending is somewhat cryptic]. The beehive is not uncommon as a symbol of British industry....my guess is that your token hails from the UK, not the colonies....
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
PS. additional text from the 'bee-side'"No. 29 Bull Street, Birmingham 1792"
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Check this out 383713539105Maybe a clue? 1812 Britain Stockport Cheshire T. Cartwright Beehive Silver Sixpence Token D.8 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1058 Posts |
Fabulous clue, TNG! Stockport's beehive tokens had certainly crossed my mind -- along with Bilston's, Newport's, and a few Irish "Not Locals" -- but I'd completely forgotten that the Stockport beehives were specifically paired with Commerce (seated right!). I should look at my "holdings" more often, or even my database, which is just an Excel spreadsheet that helps me avoid buying duplicates and keep track of what's in the vaults.  In any case, it's a great lead, and since I've had some excellent research successes with local museums in the UK in the past, I'll now begin working up some curator contacts to see where that takes me next. Thanks again for the hot tip! Tom 
"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
great! |
|
New Member
Canada
11 Posts |
Hi daltonista, here is a photo of my token.  |
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 2,507 |
|
Posted 09/15/2020 10:00 pm
