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 Replies: 24 / Views: 6,240 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3098 Posts |
Earlier this month I had someone buy a nice brown AU 1902 Indian Head cent which I had listed on ebay. When I printed off the shipping label, I groaned when I saw that it was purchased by MikesMountainValues. He has, shall we say, something of a reputation for "treating" his coins to give them a new look. I sent him the coin and kept my eyes open for it on his site. It had a mark on the cheek so it was easy to distinguish. A short time later it showed up, looking quite different and now called "Uncirculated +". He paid $25.00 for it (including shipping) and sold it for $30.00, so he didn't make much money for his efforts. Here are my photos of the coin and what it looked like when he offered it.     Paul Bulgerin
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Sorry to hear about it.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1018 Posts |
He bought an 1874 IHC from me a few weeks ago and I'm waiting to see how it looks after he treats (errr.....cleans) the coin. He paid $275 for mine. What blows my mind is how he keeps getting ridiculously high grades on some of these. He just got a 1909VDB in MS67BN! What the heck is up with the graders these days?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5663 Posts |
Lots of AT bluish IHCs and Lincolns on his site, but at least he didn't destroy the look of the coin. Reminds me of a similar experience I had with a different buyer/seller that I posted about a couple years ago. http://goccf.com/t/349163 |
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New Member
United States
25 Posts |
Wow. That is quite an education to see the before and after. It reinforces my decision to buy mostly slabbed material these days. It would be beyond my ability to spot some of these tricks. Thanks for sharing!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
So let's play Devils Advocate here. A person buys an old Muscle Car in original condition from you , does a complete frame off restoration and hot rods it and then Gets double what he paid you . It is absolutely not your concern . Title passed and you no longer have legal interest in the car . Same goes for the above coin , why do you still care ? Let's be completely honest here , there are individuals and TPGServices that conserve , restore coins and get huge money doing it . I have sold items to the Ebayer in question , he pays well and quickly with no issues . I could give no thought to what is done with the coins afterwards. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3632 Posts |
The attitude toward toning has changed over the years. In a sense, all toning is the same, regardless of whether it is "natural" or "enhanced." It is simply a chemical reaction.
What has changed is the attitude of collectors. For dinosaurs like me, the word is "leave it alone." For some, though, the word seems to be "strip it, retone it, and make it into a work of art." I think the attitude change affects TPGs, too. As long as AT coins sell, people will continue to do this.
This change in collecting can also be seen by the mint's products. The NCLT garbage peddled today reflects the demand for creativity over natural condition. Consider the endless variety of "gotta have it" proof offerings, colorized coins, and medallic art palmed off as coins (like the baseball commems).
I'm a dinosaur, and dinos gonna saur. I know others see it differently. I do wonder, though, if we are nearing the end of classical coin collecting as a hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
2145 Posts |
Got to admit though - he did a pretty good job of AT on that Indian cent. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5177 Posts |
Let them do the Artificial Toning. Perhaps they even flood the market with these coins. It will simply come back to bite them as original surface coins become more scares and rise in value, whereas these "Disneyland Coins" will plummet in value.
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New Member
United States
18 Posts |
I am in direct agreement with the gentleman who calls himself a dinosaur. I see no point in taking a perfectly nice IHC and dolling it all up. Not a fan at all of the fake toning stuff and agree that people doing this type thing are ruining the coins. I have purchased several coins from the ebayer in question and have been satisfied with my purchases, but I don't buy any of the toned ones. Period. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts |
he probably coulda gotten $30 bucks without "toning" it up.
KK
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
I normally ignore the rainbow toning, when it comes to silver coins and the above postings in this thread clearly explain why. Heat treating for artificial toning is cheap and easy for the skilled, and the reason why I an always suspicious. With the toned coins pictured I would expect them to eventually end up as black appearing disks, rather than full brown coins. Not so nice to see black eyes in an otherwise nice collection.  Over the long term, toning such as seen here is unstable anyway. |
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Valued Member
Canada
235 Posts |
The colors are due to Oven Cleaner, probably heavy duty (and use CARE or somesuch on Copper coins for the 'Blue' look). They don't always look like the OP's former 1902, but it's an indication that it happened. There's a former ANACS AU55 190X IHC Straight edge clip/broadstrike, and after a blast of o/c it's now in a ( TPG) holder as MS64. Oven cleaner is an organic-stripper; it's been used to clean-up old Diamond and Gold rings with marvelous effect Edited by whatdowehavehere
01/02/2021 1:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Yep, it's his coin, he can do what he wants with it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5177 Posts |
At a certain point, you have to ask yourself: what's the difference between one of these "Disneyland Colored" coins and an exactly similarly toned counterfeit from China? If you buy coins because you like rainbows, might as well buy coins from China for an order of magnitude less.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
This is great discussion, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments on this topic. I recently posted about my own distaste for dipped coins (E-Z-est coin cleaner, MS70 industrial strength coin brightener, etc), which in a way is somewhat analogous to this artificial toning. Aside from some higher grade coins that have been completely ruined by harsh abrasive cleaning (and their prices reflect that), I'm becoming a bit jaded due to the fact that so many of the offerings out there are dipped coins (that are bought/sold at market prices and approved by TPGs). In both cases (AT and dipped coins), the result is the same: quality original skin coins are being taken off the market forever. I get what some folks are saying, that this will only increase the value of original coins that are left. But I think this perspective is somewhat based on where you are in your collecting journey. If you've primarily assembled your main collection already, and are happy with it, then maybe you don't care what others do with coins you're not looking to buy anyway. If however you are in the midst of attempting to build a collection of classic US coins, and you just see more and more harshly cleaned, dipped, and artificially toned coins, and whatever remaining quality coins are getting more and more expensive, then...  Quote:
For dinosaurs like me, the word is "leave it alone." For some, though, the word seems to be "strip it, retone it, and make it into a work of art." I think the attitude change affects TPGs, too. As long as AT coins sell, people will continue to do this.
This change in collecting can also be seen by the mint's products. The NCLT garbage peddled today reflects the demand for creativity over natural condition. Consider the endless variety of "gotta have it" proof offerings, colorized coins, and medallic art palmed off as coins (like the baseball commems).
I'm a dinosaur, and dinos gonna saur. I know others see it differently. I do wonder, though, if we are nearing the end of classical coin collecting as a hobby.  " If all of the antique furniture were stripped and refinished to look 'new', there would be no reason to buy antique furniture." https://coinweek.com/us-coins/colle...oins-part-3/Edited by one_fine_dime
01/02/2021 7:47 pm
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Replies: 24 / Views: 6,240 |
Posted 12/31/2020 10:14 am
