| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,387 |
|
Moderator
 United States
97227 Posts |
First the line up: the following photos are taken from threads from this forum: the 'For Grading - 1965 Lincoln Memorial cent' thread and the '1954 P Lincoln Wheat cent' thread. the 1965 will be the left picture and the 1954 will be on the right. Ok here goes, for the 1965 coin everyone (almost everyone) wants to give this coin a MS-XX rating = I disagree I think it is an AU-XX. the following is from NGC's web page on grading: https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-gradin...ading-scale/The lowest possible MS-60 rating is: MS/PF 60 Weak or average strike 'with no trace of wear'. Numerous abrasions, hairlines and/or large marks. The Highest possible AU-58 rating is: AU 58 'Slight wear on the highest points of the design'. Full details. That being said, I can most definitely see wear on the high points of the cheek on Lincoln's face. the flattening of it and the sharp edges that are forming around the wear area. Please take a look and tell me why this coin pictured on the left gets an MS-XX rating. Thanks.    |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6599 Posts |
I would add the tie in there also  |
|
Moderator
 United States
97227 Posts |
yes, the bow tie os clearly worn too I was going to mention that buy decided I already provided too much info to ponder.. From yet another thread. check out that bow tie. (yes it is a proof and will be much better because of double imprinting and all that..  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Don't confuse circulation wear with die wear.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2957 Posts |
You guys bring up a very good point...but I'm wondering how one can distinguish between AU-58 and the low MS-xx grades from weak strikes? A good case in point is the infamous 1922-D Lincoln Cent, where one could have a MS-65 and the obverse looks no higher than a VF in observation. Several very high grade 22-d Lincoln's have the head looking very mushy and worn. |
|
Moderator
United States
97227 Posts |
Quote:
Don't confuse circulation wear with die wear. I'm not confusing the two. I a die is wearing out, meaning that it is losing material - in this case the high point of the cheek - wouldn't the cheek get higher, not flatter as the die gets more hollowed out? And if it is die wear, wouldn't we see more and at that point be called a die error or at the very least a variety? Such as the Known problems with the 1922-D weak/strong reverse (and Weak/no D) varieties. On the weak/no die problems coming from over polishing the die and filling the D with grease thus effectively removing the 'D' from the finished coin. Lets see a real conversation on this, as it can get confusing with the different ways a coin is made or mis-made as it were. |
|
Moderator
United States
97227 Posts |
additionally, seeing that the coin I have questioned above was infack at the end of a coin roll and facing out, isn't it possible that, the coin experienced wear over the years? The back side (reverse) is is really great shape as compared to the front (Obverse)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
In the photo example you included, glare overwhelms Abe's cheek such that no detail can be seen there.
Coins that circulate not only get worn, they also get banged up. A circulated coin will have hits and dings on it. When frehsly minted, MS coins have no hits and dings, but most acquire some due to rough handling along the path from the coinage press to you. With practice, ciculation hits can be distiguished from those that happen at the mint and in the coin bags.
|
|
Moderator
United States
97227 Posts |
I have been collecting coins for the better part of my life (going back to the mid/late 1960's. Collecting - not bothering to learn much about them. Not until just recently when my interest perked up a lot more (maybe because of the Pandemic and had not much to do) But now I think it's time to learn and appreciate the numismatic world more.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5400 Posts |
You are falling into a trap here .
The 1965 Lincoln is a weak strike coin with no wear and is definitely
Mint state . For most part it is quite typical for that year .
Lincolns are much like Morgan's you HAVE to learn the characteristics
of each Year and Mint to form a proper opinion .
A 1965 Lincoln is not comparable to the 1979 or 1954 shown .
Similar to Comparing an 1881S Morgan to an 1885O Morgan.
Apples and Oranges .
Great book to acquire if you wish to learn about Lincoln Cents
Is a Guide Book of Lincoln Cents by Q David Bowers .
He states ,most were struck in 1966 and that Gems are in the minority
due to quality and strike issues .
The hub dies we're wearing quite badly by the middle 60s due to
the Hi Relief characteristics of the coin . This was corrected in 1969 .
Edited by Pacificoin
01/30/2021 2:07 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Well said.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1217 Posts |
Here is a photo that may show the surface of the 1965 a little better. I used my camera scope to take the photo, turning the overhead light all the way off, bringing my light source in from the top of the coin, almost flat, raised just enough to illuminate the Coin.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
5675 Posts |
Agree this is mint state with some strike flatness. I don't see any signs of circulation marks or wear.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19964 Posts |
The cheek is not worn, that flatness is due to the strike being weak and high point die wear. Also, you cannot judge properly without a reverse photo. My go-to on the reverse is the cornice. One also has to consider that a circulated coin will have other signs of wear, such as loss of luster, hits and dings.
Also consider that the master a new master hub was used in 1969 because the original hubs were VERY worn by 1968. From about 1960 up, softness in the obverse design started showing and got progressively worse each year.
Edited by BadThad
01/30/2021 3:10 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Liking the examples and info in this post  How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
|
Moderator
United States
97227 Posts |
I agree! Finally a good conversation on grading. I thank you for the information given so far.
Lets try to keep this going.
This is valuable info for helping me grade what I have in my collection.
|
| |
Replies: 19 / Views: 2,387 |
Posted 01/30/2021 11:40 am
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
