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2017 P Frederick Douglas Quarter, Doubling Or MD?

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  5:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know that the incuse letters with doubling on most of these quarters are Machine Doubling and I find them often, but this one kind of throws me off a bit and I was hoping someone might have an idea of if this still falls under MD or is it something else?

Mainly curious about what is going on with the "G" and "L" in Douglas but opinions are welcome.

2017-P-Frederick-Douglas-Quarter,-Doubling-Or-MD?
2017-P-Frederick-Douglas-Quarter,-Doubling-Or-MD?
2017-P-Frederick-Douglas-Quarter,-Doubling-Or-MD?
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There have been zero DDRs on that area. All are machine doubled, regardless of slight amounts to huge amounts. I did a survey out of 100 ATB Quarters and 70% of them showed slight, to very strong Machine Doubling. All the DDR's are found in the central areas of the designs on the States and ATB Quarters.
Obverse earlobes and Left side of the motto.
Reverses in the central area of the design. (None on the incuse devices on the area you are looking at) None.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, you do see the extra G and L though right? I know the "Stretching" is 100% MD but the extra serif under the top portion of the "G" and the left portion of the "L" look like a completely separate strike. Again, I know there is a lot of MD on here but how would a die shift completely split like that without showing the "Stretch" (MD).

Just curious.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just so we are on the same page, the area highlighted in red is Machine Doubling?

2017-P-Frederick-Douglas-Quarter,-Doubling-Or-MD?
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

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Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
(None on the incuse devices on the area you are looking at) None.

The point is that the DDR's are not on that area. These devices are incuse and never part of a DDR. Just the centers of the design.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is perfectly fine, as I'm not directly assuming it is a DDR or any type of hub doubling. I simply want to know if the red highlighted area is part of the Machine Doubling that is present on this coin, or if it is something else other then a doubled die that caused it.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018.

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merclover's Avatar
United States
10635 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with coop, you have incuse Machine Doubling.

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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Read this thread on the differences between doubled dies on raised and incuse devices. That will help:
http://goccf.com/t/265641&whichpage=3#3355126
Bottom section of the thread.
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Tanman2001's Avatar
United States
4404 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2021  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is exactly what I was talking about on the 2015 Canada quarter post earlier. Incuse doubling is the opposite of what you'd expect. A true doubled die would make these letters thinner while Machine Doubling looks just like what true doubling looks like on raised elements.

Although I disagree with Coop this is not entirely MD. The doubling towards the rim is actually Die Deterioration Doubling, the doubling to the southwest on the GL is Machine Doubling.

I think a lot of the "70% of ATB Quarters with MD" are likely Die Deterioration Doubling. Not to say the MD isn't also common, but I see the DDD more often.
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