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 Replies: 27 / Views: 9,457 |
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
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But the proof coins Do come in an annual set. a set of the 4 proof produced for each year..
Or am I missing something here? Yes, the question is why they are not part of the full annual sets along with the Native American dollar like the Presidential dollars were. |
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Moderator
United States
97314 Posts |
Ahhh.. ok now it makes sense.. I knew I missed something.. lol.. Old age brain fart..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1613 Posts |
I pondered on that very same question back in 2019 when the first one was struck since the quarter program would end in 2021. At the time, and prior to the release of pricing for this years sets, I thought surely the price would change being three coins short. Was I ever wrong. In response to Big Kingdom, I'd argue that the Kennedy half has not been struck for circulation since 2001, making it an NIFC. Also, both the half and Innovation dollars carry a monetized designation. So neither could be justified by the mint under that reason. Like someone already mentioned it was done to squeeze more money from the collector. ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
Edited by Ballyhoo
03/19/2021 5:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
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Like someone already mentioned it was done to squeeze more money from the collector. Not really. I agree with Jbuck on this one. If the US Mint wanted to get more revenue then they would have included the Innovation dollars in the annual proof and mint sets and increased the price accordingly. Just look at the 3/7/21 sales figures. 2019 - 600,464 proof sets, 124,549 AI$ proof sets and 2020 - 464,093 proof sets, 85,761 AI$ proof sets. Had the US Mint included the Innovation dollars in the annual proof sets and increased the price then they would have had a big increase in revenue. Edited by BadDog
03/20/2021 3:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2627 Posts |
I for one am glad Innovation dollars aren't in the annual sets. I don't even want to think about what the price increases would be if they added them.  That being said, I definitely think the Mint should produce a separate annual uncirculated set for the series, rather than forcing collectors to buy rolls or go to the secondary market to get individual coins. I'm sure such a set would be popular. |
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
Quote:
Just look at the 3/7/21 sales figures. 2019 - 600,464 proof sets, 124,549 AI$ proof sets and 2020 - 464,093 proof sets, 85,761 AI$ proof sets. Had the US Mint included the Innovation dollars in the annual proof sets and increased the price then they would have had a big increase in revenue. I agree.  Quote:
That being said, I definitely think the Mint should produce a separate annual uncirculated set for the series, rather than forcing collectors to buy rolls or go to the secondary market to get individual coins. I'm sure such a set would be popular. I agree with this as well. Goes double for the uncirculated San Francisco and West Point quarters. At least I have been able to obtain these from coin show dealers (who buy the bags/rolls to sell individually for great profit). Now, it I could just make it to a coin show...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
Look guys, I hear your points, and I get it but the key difference here is the following: - The United States $1 Coin Act of 1997, "To provide for the minting and circulation of new one dollar coins" - The Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, 31 USC 5101, specifically states "REDESIGN AND ISSUANCE OF CIRCULATING $1 COINS HONORING EACH OF THE PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES" - The Native American $1 Coin Act 2007, The Redesign and Issuance of Circulating $1 Coins Honoring Native Americans and the Important Contributions Made by Indian Tribes and Individual Native Americans in United States History. - American Innovation $1 Coin Act " Treatment as numismatic items.--For purposes of sections 5134 and 5136, all $1 coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items." There is no mention of "circulating dollar coins" it specifically states "numismatic items". They are not authorized as a circulating issue and because of that they are left out of the annual mint and proof sets. Even the Kennedy half dollar was authorized for circulation and it must be specifically stated "for circulation" in the authorization. The American Innovation Dollars were only given authorization for collector issues, and are not authorized for circulation release. I'm not going to argue about what has or hasn't been struck for circulation or the reasons not to. The reason the American Innovation Dollar coins aren't included in the annual sets is because they aren't authorized for circulation while the other coins in the annual set have been authorized for circulation. |
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
Ah, so that is the difference we missed. "Issuance of Circulating $1 Coins."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
Quote:
There is no mention of "circulating dollar coins" it specifically states "numismatic items". Nothing was "missed" about the word circulating in the Innovation dollar section of the law. It doesn't need to state anything about circulating. Take a look at 31 USC 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins paragraph (t) for the new quarters starting next year Quote:
(t) Redesign and Issuance of Quarter Dollars Emblematic of National Sites in Each State, the District of Columbia, and Each Territory You won't find any mention of "circulating" concerning these quarters, yet there's no question that they will be produced by the US Mint for circulation. The same is true for the Innovation dollars. Note the similar wording of 31 USC 51125112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins paragraph (w) concerning the Innovation dollars Quote:
(w) Redesign and Issuance of $1 Coins Honoring Innovation and Innovators From Each State, the District of Columbia, and Each Territory.- The Treasury is choosing not to produce the coins for circulation because there is no demand for them. There's nothing in the law the precludes them from being produced for circulation should that policy decision be reversed due to some unimaginable demand for the coin. The US Mint is choosing not the include the American Innovation Dollars in the annual proof and mint sets for some reason, but it has nothing to do with the coins not being authorized for circulation. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
U.S. Code dictates how the mint and Dept. of Treasury makes or doesn't make, and how it's made, the legislation (bills, public law) dictate whether it's for circulation or not. The USC is the codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States, legislation, bills, public law are additions/changes to the main structure. about the national parks quarters, the bill is here. the America's Beautiful National Parks Quarter Dollar Coin Act of 2008, Public Law 110-456, https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...0publ456.htmAs far as the Innovation dollars, Public Law No: 115-197 that is https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th...ill/770/textagain there is no authorization for circulation in the public law. Every other bill for these coin programs has the authorization for circulation written into it. it's not in USC5112 because that generalizes the main structure of the bills themselves. the bills are what is or isn't authorized by public law. I'm really trying to explain it as clearly as I possibly can. I'm not commenting on this topic anymore, believe whatever you like if you refuse to look into the actual public laws themselves and prefer to use USC5112 instead. it's not a mint directors policy decision to not include them. Since 2012 the Sacagawea dollar coins are in the annual sets, it wasn't removed when they stopped striking them for release to circulation, it's authorized as a circulating coin by public law, whether they make them for circulation or not, and this is why it's included in the normal annual mint and proof sets and why the innovation dollars aren't included in the sets. The question was "What is the reason why there are no Innovation Dollars in US Mint Sets? And why are the Innovation Dollars sold separately instead of part of the annual proof sets?" The answer is "Because public law 115-197 makes no mention of "circulation" for the innovation dollar series, therefore, they were excluded from the annual sets the mint offers. The regular annual sets are for circulating coin issues." Edited by Big-Kingdom
03/23/2021 11:16 am
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
I remember a similar argument debating whether or not a Reagan dollar could exist without Carter, because the wording of the legislation was just ambiguous enough. We know how that turned out. Legal documents are tricky, best left to lawyers and courts I suppose. You would have to really, really want these dollars included in the annual sets if you wanted to go the litigation route. A very expensive set it would be.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
IMHO the US Mint acknowledges that the Innovation Dollars are authorized for circulation. Take a look at the US Mint webpage on Coin and Medal Programs. The innovation Dollars are shown in the Circulating Coins/Dollar Coins section with the caveat Quote:
Since 2012, dollar coins are circulating quality produced as collectibles, not for everyday transactions. However, they may be still used as legal tender. Edited by BadDog
03/23/2021 1:29 pm
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Replies: 27 / Views: 9,457 |
First Page
Posted 03/19/2021 4:24 pm
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
