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Very Unusual 1875-CC Seated Twenty Cent For Grading

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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2021  3:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This one is a coin I happened across, but haven't yet purchased. It's interesting to me, and as many of you know, I love discussing interesting coins. I have my thoughts on what it is, but I'd like to hear yours.

So my thoughts. Both the obverse and reverse show signs of heavy wear which would indicate a low grade, around VF-20- - VF-25, but there are a few things that throw me off. First and foremost, the rims and stars show no significant signs of wear. Secondly, the hair, hair clasp and dress clasp are remarkably sharp. Thirdly, the reverse, while the photos are blurry, do show fine details, specifically in the top portion of the right wing. Fourth, the "luster" looks natural, it doesn't have the appearance of a cleaned coin.

Now to counter my own argument so to speak, the 1875-CC is NOT known for particularly weak strikes. The way I would argue that this is cleaned is that it has an extremely razor sharp strike, circulated and was then cleaned. As for arguing for it being unaltered, I would have to argue that it is a one off extremely weakly struck AU.

So what do you think?

Very-Unusual-1875-CC-Seated-Twenty-Cent-For-Grading
Very-Unusual-1875-CC-Seated-Twenty-Cent-For-Grading
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18630 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2021  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i cant argue its not a weak strike. on the obverse it looks like the lower half of the coin below her waist is different than the upper half in the way of wear/strike. rims are sharp and reverse is lettering looks pretty crisp. would a TPG grade this AU? I doubt it. I'm not even sure they would grade it XF.
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jimbucks's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/25/2021  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts are that it is struck from worn out dies, or a fake. Is the mint mark supposed to look like that?
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2021  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
reverse photo is out of focus but jimbucks may be right with the MM. doesn't look right. without a better reverse photo...passeroo.
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Onedollarbillnut's Avatar
United States
743 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2021  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Onedollarbillnut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it might have been a jewelry piece, by the heavy weather on the center of the coin and minimal wear at the rim areas
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2021  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting thought. Either way not a fan.
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 Posted 04/25/2021  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The upper left wing can be prone to weakness for the Carson City strikes, but as you say this has an abnormally large amount of weakness or wear in spots which would otherwise be an AU coin. There is a good size gouge in the middle breast of the eagle. I'll guess that somewhere along the way someone tried to buff out or smooth over some problem areas of the coin while leaving other parts of it alone.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2021  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now to counter my own argument so to speak, the 1875-CC is NOT known for particularly weak strikes. The way I would argue that this is cleaned is that it has an extremely razor sharp strike, circulated and was then cleaned. As for arguing for it being unaltered, I would have to argue that it is a one off extremely weakly struck AU.


Brunner and Frost would disagree about the strike quality of 1875-CC coins. There were two reverse dies that buckled and completely collapsed during striking the 1875-CC. (This isn't one of those reverse dies, however.) The weak areas on this coin match the weak areas on the weaker strikes.

What's the diameter of this coin? Two collars were used on the 1875-CC, and the resulting coins can be either 21.8 mm or 22.1 mm.

Even with the fuzzy pics, this appears to be a date right obverse 2 die, which was only used with the 21.8 mm collar.

There was only one mint mark punch used by Carson City during the series. The only variation is placement of the mm. The second "C" looks high in relation to the leaf and arrow. If I am guessing correctly from the fuzzy pics, this would make it Reverse die B.

An obverse 2 reverse B match is BF-3, which is a fairly scarce, but not rare, die marriage.

All that aside, I'm not able to tell from the pics whether this coin has been cleaned. The luster looks original, especially around the legends. The obverse has quite a few contact marks.

Given the weak strike and abundant original luster, this may actually be in the EF-AU range. Anything over VF is very hard to find for an 1875-CC, even though it is a relatively common date.

Without better pics and an accurate diameter, this is the best guesswork I can offer.

EDIT: I meant to say High EF-AU range.
Edited by fortcollins
04/25/2021 8:24 pm
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