Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Half Dime Or Half Disme?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 2,003Next Topic  
Press Manager
Learn More...
CCFPress's Avatar
United States
1420 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2021  11:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCFPress to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Collectors who are privy to the early silver coinage of the United States are often flummoxed upon seeing two similar-looking words that seem to refer to the same coin but yet are spelled quite differently. These two words are " Half Dime" and "half disme," both of which refer to a United States silver coin with a face value of five cents and moving the scales at just one half of what their contemporary silver dime counterparts weigh. The two names surely seem to be related and they both relate back to the small, silver five-cent coins of early United States Mint vintage. But why are there spelling variances like this, and how does one even pronounce "disme" anyway?

Half-Dime-Or-Half-Disme?
Bust Half Dime, 1792 H10C, PCGS MS68

The origin of both names dates back to the early 1790s, when the United States coinage system was still in its infancy. The Coinage Act of 1792, which established the United States Mint in Philadelphia - then the capital city for the young United States, called for a variety of coins based on a decimal system and including a five-cent coin, denominated at half the rate of the 10-cent coin to be called the disme, terms and spellings taken straight from said act:

"Dismes - each to be of the value of one tenth of a dollar or unit, and to contain thirty seven grains and two sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or forty one grains and three fifth parts of a grain of standard silver. Half Dismes - each to be of the value of one twentieth of a dollar, and to contain eighteen grains and nine sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or twenty grains and four fifth parts of a grain of standard silver."


As then-Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson described, "the most easy ratio of multiplication and division is that of ten." And "10" is a critical numerical component of the decimal system as proposed in the 1585 book La Disme by French mathematician Simon Stevin of Bruges. More than 200 years later, the early United States coins known as the Half Disme were produced under the watchful eye of first Director of the United States Mint David Rittenhouse. Some 1,500 Half Dismes dated 1792 were made from silver (often cited to have been bullion donated by Founding Parents George and Martha Washington) in the Philadelphia basement of John Harper, whose building resided just feet away from the first United States Mint then under construction.

The 1792 Half Dismes were presented to President George Washington and other leading statespersons of the day, including the aforementioned Jefferson and Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton. Many of these early silver coins - generally deemed pattern coins by many numismatists - circulated in commerce, a point proudly noted by Washington, who said in a 1792 public address that, "There has been a small beginning in the coinage of Half Dimes, the want of small coins in circulation calling the first attention to them." The lucky few in the public who got to handle the new coins widely embraced them but had trouble in pronouncing the French-origin name of the new denomination, the Half Disme, which carries a silent "s" and "e" and is phonetically read as "deem."

In short order, the revised name, "dime," was officially adopted for both the five-cent and ten-cent coins and by 1794, when the next run of Half Dimes and first batch of dimes officially hit production at the United States Mint, the "disme" spelling had been dropped in favor of the Americanized "dime." To this day, the spelling "disme" almost exclusively refers to the 1792 United States silver coinage denominated to five cents, while " Half Dime" and "dime" refer to the relevant coins minted in 1794 and thereafter.

Check out Half Dimes and Half Dismes on ebay.
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
188037 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2021  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting!

I need to retrain my brain to say "deem" instead of "dismay."
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
johnjkedel's Avatar
United States
594 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2021  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnjkedel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always wondered ... now I know. Thanks
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Use of the word disme continued in internal mint documents until the 1820's. The article says

"and by 1794, when the next run of Half Dimes and first batch of dimes officially hit production at the United States Mint, the "disme" spelling had been dropped in favor of the Americanized "dime."

but the new Half Dime and in 1796 the dime did not have the denomination on them. And when the coins DID begin have the denomination on them it was expressed as 10C in 1809 for the dime and 5C in 1928 on the Half Dime. The word DIME did not appear on the coinage until 1837.

Jefferson was a Francophile, he loved everything French, the word disme is based on the French word for tenth, dixième.

Also the 1792 Half Dismes were not

" presented to President George Washington and other leading statespersons of the day, including the aforementioned Jefferson and Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton."

they were all given to Thomas Jefferson who provided the $75 in silver to have them made. And after he received them he then went on a trip during which he used them. As the Mint could not at that time legally make silver coins, I consider the 1792 Half Dismes to be a private token of Thomas Jefferson's.
Edited by Conder101
08/31/2021 09:11 am
Pillar of the Community
westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What Condor101 said about Jefferson is right on, in fact Jefferson not only had the coins made from silver he gave to the mint, he even kept a record book of how he spent many of them on a trip he took right after receiving them back from the mint. This was all very well documented in the book "1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage" by co-authors; Pete Smith, Joel Orosz, and Leonard Augsburger. In fact the cover of the book is based on this story told and detailed in a painting by Pete Smith:

Half-Dime-Or-Half-Disme?

The book itself is an amazing feat of research, as it covers not only the history behind the coinage of 1792, the people that were involved, but also attempts and mostly succeeds in providing a provenance to each specimen known of coinage (mostly these 1792 Half Dismes) of all 1792 coinage. The book won the 2017 Numismatic Literary Guild book of the year award recognizing the authors with the greatest potential impact to numismatics. The book is published by Ivy Press, and available at most of the usual suspects (Amazon, ebay, Wizard, Brooklyn Galleries, and Heritage directly). The cost is only $29.95 though I found mine for about half that on ebay. One of my favorite books in my large library and one that stays on the permanent shelf by my desk.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
188037 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Jefferson was a Francophile
"...at least they know I know where France is!"


Quote:
Also the 1792 Half Dismes were ... all given to Thomas Jefferson who provided the $75 in silver to have them made.

Quote:
What Condor101 said about Jefferson is right on... This was all very well documented in the book "1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage" by co-authors; Pete Smith, Joel Orosz, and Leonard Augsburger.
Fascinating!
Pillar of the Community
Ty2020b's Avatar
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll 2nd what @westcoin said. I haven't yet made my way through the entire book but it's a great read so far! Well laid out, great mix of history and information.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16810 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always assumed that "disme" had exactly the same pronunciation as "dime", and that "disme" lost its "silent s" at the same time as Webster's dictionaries of 1806 and 1828 encouraged all Americans to drop the other useless silent letters from the language, like the "u" from "colour" or the "k" and "g" from "knight".

Okay, that last one didn't take (perhaps because America didn't have any knighthoods, and thus no "nihts") but many of his other suggestions were adopted; thus why Americans spell words differently to other English-language-users.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2021  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This video short by David Lisot for Coin Week has the correct pronunciation for those still wondering, featuring the then owner of it, Martin Logies it is the same Half Disme seen in the first post photograph.

9xJDcBDjIOo
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
Bump111's Avatar
United States
3323 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2021  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting video short. Thanks for sharing.

There has been protracted discussion about the history of these Half Dismes. A member of our local club had an article published on the subject in "The Numismatist" a couple of years back. He reviewed Thomas Jefferson's journal regarding his 1792 trip home in which many of these coins were, basically, given away. It has been speculated that Jefferson provided the silver for coining in the form of then-circulating Spanish money. It is an interesting subject and worthy of more research for those thus predisposed.

Edited for spelling
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Edited by Bump111
09/01/2021 11:53 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1186 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2021  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The one pictured is really colorful.
Pillar of the Community
fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3632 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2021  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Fish scale" is easy to pronounce.
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
188037 Posts
  Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 2,003Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.53 seconds to rattle this change. Forums