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1866 Three Cent Nickel Grade

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SoILCoins's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  5:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SoILCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I purchased this coin from someone who no longer wanted it in their collection, I'm not sure as to why it's not graded any higher and would appreciate any input!

Any info is helpful (see photos attached)
1866-Three-Cent-Nickel-Grade
1866-Three-Cent-Nickel-Grade
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even enlarged, these pics are too soft to evaluate carefully.



to the CCF!
Edited by Coinfrog
06/02/2021 6:18 pm
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SoILCoins's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SoILCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

1866-Three-Cent-Nickel-Grade
1866-Three-Cent-Nickel-Grade
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps environmental damage was the issue - pics need to be sharper.
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Ty2020b's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very possibly ED
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 06/02/2021  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's actually not graded, it's simply noted as genuine. It may not have been graded but rather just encapsulated. Usually however a coin with problems is called Genuine in lieu of a numeric grade. This is a low value (~$20) coin so the lack of a numeric grade has little effect on it's value in the marketplace and whatever problems it may have appear to be minimal.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2021  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There were over a million coins in that hoard so they probably slabbed many of them as "genuine" just for the attribution marketing, if it wasn't going to grade above a certain level. NGC usually says something like "AU Details Cleaned" and not just "Genuine". I suspect you have to determine the real grade yourself. I poked around for about 10 minutes and couldn't find anything explaining all the "genuine" grades from this hoard.
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2021  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's the designation that NGC assigned when cleaning, alteration or damage prevents the coin from being judged "original", similar to a details designation that PCGS would assign
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2021  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a little background on the hoard from a press release:


Quote:
The hoard, which contains over a million coins, ranges from bags of large copper cents and Capped Bust half dollars, to Morgan and other silver dollars. Other coins include Washington quarters, Franklin half dollars, bags of Flying Eagle and Indian Head cents, nearly 10,000 1909 V.D.B cents, and more. Most are in circulated grades, and will appeal to collectors seeking coins that are both historical and affordable. The market value is estimated to be well into eight figures, with initial estimates ranging from $15 to $20 million.

Designated as The Stack's West 57th Street Collection, the coins were obtained in New York City and around the country, then stashed away and never reviewed for key dates or attributed by varieties. Armed guards kept watch as the 30-ton hoard was unloaded from two large transport trucks and transferred into secured vaults. The sorting process has now just begun, and announcements of collection highlights will be made in the upcoming months as the hoard is examined.

"Going through samples from this collection has been amazing," said Lawrence R. Stack, a founder of Stack's Bowers Galleries. "Each of the thousands of groupings has remained sealed as originally closed by the owner. We expect to find many rare varieties and discoveries as the review process continues. I have never seen anything like it, and am unaware of any comparable hoard of copper, nickel and silver coins that has ever come to the numismatic market. This will have a profound effect on new collectors coming into the hobby, for the vast majority of the coins will be very affordable — quite a change from the usual business of handling rarities."

"The collection will be an ongoing part of our auction program over the next few years," said Brian Kendrella, president of Stack's Bowers Galleries. "Coins will initially be offered in our Internet auctions beginning in April. Rarities, new discoveries, higher-value coins, and the like, will be included in regular auction programs, including our Official Auctions of the Whitman Coin and Collectibles Expos, our ANA World's Fair of Money Showcase and Rarities Night auctions, and other venues. There will certainly be something for everyone, and I expect the discovery will be exciting for all individuals involved in numismatics."

"After learning advanced news of this, I began thinking, perhaps it is time for a new edition of my American Coin Hoards and Treasures book," said Q. David Bowers, a founder and chairman emeritus of Stack's Bowers Galleries. "This hoard is one of the greatest finds since the book was published in the 1990s, and it's quite different from most others in that it contains tons of what used to be pocket change but is now, in every instance, a collectible."


I had heard that Stack's cherrypicked for years out of this hoard of coins, and finally were able to purchase the entire lot of coins (30 tons). They got a sweetheart deal from NGC on the slabbing, to trade grading for marketing NGC and paid almost nothing for the slabs, (a few dollars per coin at most) making it a loss leader for NGC but they get their name on the million plus coins in the marketplace, as well as many coins going to mass marketers so they would be seen by many brand new non collecting eyeballs. I've bought a couple of the coins ( Two Cent Pieces) that had interesting die cracks and broke them out of the slab. I don't believe there is any real value to having a provenance in this hoard of coin personally, at least not like some collections, (Eliasberg, Garrett, DL Hansen, Binnion, GSA, etc.).

From my understanding only certain coins (above a set pricing point) received any type of numerical grade attached to the holder. I don't know that value but I assume it's close to $80-100. There were some amazing coins to come out of the 57th Street Collection, quite a few Morgan dollars with amazing colorful toning in very high grades:
http://media.stacksbowers.com/SBG_e..._140325.html
But many, many more coins like this one posted, just an average circulated coin with issues that really doesn't need to be slabbed, and wouldn't be if not for the luck of the draw and it ending up in a bag from this collection or hoard.

This original press release really shows off just some of the quantity of coins we are talking about, and it's only a small part of the coins. Note the tubs are USPS mail tubs (the file box sized ones). 30 tons, makes up a pile of coins!

http://news.coinupdate.com/stacks-w...-coins-3186/

Now that would be a collection to find out your deceased relative has left you.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/03/2021 11:42 am
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2021  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But "Details" is the designation NGC uses for problem coins, followed by a description of the problem. Nowhere on their website do I find anything describing a plain "Genuine" grade on a slab. Maybe the OP could go to NGC and post under their "Ask NGC" forum. (replying to panzaldi)

https://www.NGCcoin.com/news/articl...ils-grading/
Edited by kbbpll
06/03/2021 11:44 am
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2021  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This label is for the mass marketers. Not graded, I'd probably grade this 3 cent Nickle from the poor photos I can tell F15, maybe VF20. NGC was paid only a $2-3 dollars for the holders that weren't graded numerically, the coins worth more than $75-80 were graded with a numerical grade and it cost Stack's more in grading fees for them, like $4-6 each, the Higher end coins like the top end Morgans, higher grade type material and key dates probably got more attention and were charged appropriately by NGC at closer to $8 per coin. This may seem cheap when comparing grading fees of $30-50 for the average person off the street, but remember there were multiple millions of coins they graded for Stack's in this collection/hoard.

I am pulling these numbers of cost on slabbing out of thin air, but educated guesses as I have worked for two TPGs in the past, and my good friend started a TPGs that is still in business.

David Lange would probably be the only guy that may respond on their forums on this subject that has any real insight. NGC is really backed up currently, and opening mail they received 3-4 weeks ago just now. No packages are opened until they can be logged at the exact time they are opened. That I assume is the priority over their forum boards at the moment.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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